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That. ICE drivers don’t mind driving 20 min to refill but for god sake 30m drinking a coffee is unthinkable. And apparently none of them has spotted that recharging points are everywhere.

The range expectations are also completely crazy - driving more than 2 hours without a break is just unsafe and advised against. I wonder when the GP even goes to the bathroom.

While I agree that EVs make sense in a lot of cases, I feel like you're min-maxing your values here to be as beneficial as possible to EVs.

Filling my (non economical, okay mileage) car takes ~5 minutes. I get ~300mi range from it. 30 minutes waiting for my car to charge up to 1/4-1/2 the mileage is a hard sell for some folks, depending on their workflow. I unfortunately can't run 240 at home, don't have ability to charge at work, and often find myself places that don't have many chargers in the area.

For many, EV totally works. But to say it's 20 vs 30 minutes is a little silly, IMO.

Not to mention that many people drive more than 2 hours without a break. I get that it's advised against, but I still want that ability in my car without being forced to stop.

> Filling my (non economical, okay mileage) car takes ~5 minutes. I get ~300mi range from it.

Your median wait to “fill up” an ev for many/most people is 0 minutes, because they do it at home.

> Not to mention that many people drive more than 2 hours without a break.

This is standard in teslas, it’s standard in the Ioniq 6, and it will be standard in most mass market EVs in the near future (there may be a niche market for local-only cars).

EVs are only an issue for two types of folks:

1. Folks who can’t charge at home/work, and don’t have a natural place to charge while they are doing something else. Imho, this is an infrastructure issue that will be solved.

2. Folks who frequently take long road trips in a cannonball run style. Even this will be solvable with advance in battery tech (rumors are that Tesla have this tech in hand). 500-600 mile ranges with reasonable battery weight will be a thing.

What? Driving 20 min to fill the tank? Who and where does that? I fill it in a few minutes on the way from work to home.

Back and forth makes it 10m one way. I know many people who drive longer than this to refill, esp in rural or congested areas.

My ICE car right now costs $1100 in insurance. For me to insure an 2022 Acura NSX is $1500 a year to the same level.

A Bolt to be insured to the exact same level is $$4200 a year. A Tesla Model 3 would ring me $5700 a year. A Porsche Taycan is $7300 a year. None of these are as expensive as the NSX.

And the cost for me to install the additional circuits to the garage went up significantly since my last quote; it's now $2500 to run an additional circuit into the garage. I don't know what it would cost to upgrade the mains panel as well if it's needed (I have only a 100A) but I've heard it's averaging about $5000 or so.

So yeah... not exactly FUD at least from where I'm standing.

That's weird. I pay $350/yr in insurance. I hop insurance providers every couple years. That's a separate trick though. I had to go check since I round it down to 0 in my head.

My costs went down so substantially when I switched to electric they are for all intents and purposes, effectively 0

Sorry if you can't figure it out.

For me it's a substantial cost increase. My gas is only about $2000 a year and maintenance is roughly $200 a year. So roughly speaking I'd be paying $900 a year more to drive an EV then to drive an ICE. That's even before you start factoring in the higher upfront purchase price and the one time costs for upgrading the home.

>Sorry if you can't figure it out.

I'm honestly not sure if you're genuinely sorry if it's not working out for me, or if you're snarking.

It was meant to be encouraging without sounding patronizing. I'm not great at it

You might want to find a better electrician, those quotes are nuts. Also if your circuit panel can power a clothes dryer, it can power a home charger

That's not entirely true. There are load calculations that get done to figure out if a new circuit can be added. If you're going to trip the main breaker while charging and cooking dinner at the same time, you'll probably need a service upgrade per electrical code

They're actually reasonable, unfortunately.

The garage is detached one fed by a single 120V circuit buried in PVC conduit, and it is enough for everything in there at the moment. But if a car's charging at the same time say someone open's the garage door, it's going to trip the breaker.

So at least I'd have to pull a second circuit dedicated for charging. To do that, the old conduit needs to come out and be replaced with one that is up to code for handling either more then one circuit, or can handle a 240V circuit. The cost of digging the old one out and installing a new one is a very substantial portion of that quote.

Now granted this was a quote for a full 240V circuit with a subpanel; the quote last year was around $2000 ish. Inflation rate, increasing labor costs, and continuing supply chain issues caused the jump. I didn't get a chance to ask what the quote was for just a second 120V circuit though.

The mains upgrade cost is just what I've heard second hand from others upgrading their 100A service to 200A. I haven't gotten a quote for myself but it doesn't sound wrong to me. Just filing the paper work for the permit from the is a $160 fee. The permit itself IIRC is an additional $200 or $300. I suspect the electrician would have to get the utility involved as well to disconnect and upgrade the main lines coming from the street to the house to accommodate the increased possible amperage.

What in the world? Are those USD?

I pay $1200 a year to insure my Tesla Model S at the max liability coverage, with comprehensive and collision. Admittedly, I've filed that I drive a max of 6k miles a year and I have the highest deductible set on both comprehensive and collision, but I have strong doubts it'd quintuple in price to insure if I went and set those to more typical settings.

How old are you? I bought a model 3 performance when I was 27 and sold it a year ago. I was paying 285/month with Allstate (before Tesla started offering insurance). I drive my old ICE now and pay 108/month. Clean record.

From what I understand the older you are the less you pay.

I'm 31. I was under the impression that it was mostly a big step change in your mid to late 20s and then mostly remained stable.

Also if the issue here were age, I assume that GP would also pay more for an ICE car.

I'm also in California in a city environment, maybe that's why? Otherwise yeah I am getting ripped off D:

One thing I noticed with my model 3 was that the rates I was quoted varied WILDLY by company. Deltas of over $200 a month.

Canadian dollars. I don't pretend to understand the reasoning, the insurers have their own logic. But anything with a battery (even PHEV's) seem to command a much higher premium; I was quoted $3400 a year last year for a RAV4 Prime.

Given your situation maybe an EV is indeed unworkable for you.

Doesn’t mean it’s the same for everyone else.

There is zero chance that everyone with a car today could get free charging at work.

Ok, so what? Why am I on the hook for single handidly solving the economics of global EV fueling in a tiny reply window, in this conversation, in order to defend my preference?

I haven't had to pay for fuel in half a decade. Theoretical abstractions and rhetorical slights of hand don't change that.

You can do whatever the heck you want.

Perhaps that explains why

>people don't appreciate the new patterns you use with an EV

The pattern you describe is not available.

Right, so what? Some people own homes and I can't do what they do. Others live close to a supercharger and I can't do that.

Some work from home and there's no charger at the office and so they can't do what I do.

This is like if I said I charge my smartphone on my nightstand when I go to sleep and you say "aha, what about people without nightstands! Checkmate!"

A diversity of exacting detail doesn't make something infeasible. We still all say eat meals or communicate with words despite vast differences in how these things look and operate among all of humanity

Again it's not my personal responsibility to itemize all theoretical dimensions here.

I don’t understand why you would be concerned why people don’t appreciate the pattern.

And then not seem to understand why they wouldn’t…

There's new patterns. That's the point.

It's that you can't define one system in another's terms.

Someone who lives in say Tokyo would probably see private car ownership as incredibly expensive and inconvenient while someone living in rural Montana probably can't conceive of how to live their life using public transit.

An inability to imagine new ways is inherent to any system change. I'm sure people can adapt just like I'm sure someone from Montana can get used to using trains if they went to Tokyo.

I don't know all the patterns but I've got faith that people can modify their behaviors as required by at least this amount.

But I get it. You can't really see it until you do it and then it's obvious and easy.

I wouldn't worry too much about it. There is zero chance you could solve any part of global ev fueling.

That part is certainly not true. I've worked pretty extensively with OCPI, that crazy nightmare.

Read me bitch about it over 4 years ago https://kristopolous.medium.com/authorizing-a-charge-with-oc...

I had a bunch of conversations after that with people at greenlots, chargepoint, evgo, blink, and flo about bringing sanity into things ... The industry is smaller than you think here and my impact is nonzero. Near zero, but certainly nonzero!

If you’re considering it for next year then get on a wait list now. Where I live the Ioniq 5 wait times are 2-3 years.

Where's that? I just got one, it took some work calling dealers for a few weeks, but you can't order them, you have to find the one you want on the lot. All dealers have their inventories on their website and Hyundai's site has a master search for all of them. The exact car I wanted showed up, the dealer had it, so I had to drive from NY to PA to pick it up. I hired a car transport to bring it to my house the next day. So it took me a little less than a month to get it. In the tri state area there's a good deal of ioniqs in stock.