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Comment by hluska | Hacker News Reader

Pearl Jam tried to beat Ticketmaster. At the risk of sounding like the big fan I am, if Eddie Vedder and co. (at their commercial peak) can’t beat Ticketmaster, I’m not convinced that software can.

I’ve been pasting this Rolling Stone link since I was in my teens. I can’t believe how old I am…

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/pearl-jam-taki...

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Recently I went to see PJ with a friend. I had the tickets but I was going to be late so tried to transfer one ticket. Nope, not allowed. Both of us had to be there with my app. If I wanted to sell it I can but not to a person. I can just release it back at the original price and no fees. So PJ are still fighting the good fight and TM plays along. Unfortunately most artists don’t have PJ’s influence, so probably not an option for everyone to set the rules.

I think I can live with the approach of banning transfers but still offering refunds.

Seems like it would make deter scalpers since they'd have to show up at the concert or provide you with a fake ID which might not work.

Yeah, screw scalpers!

It just replaces one scalper with another. Why the heck do you want to allow TM to double scalp you with fees just to give a ticket to your friend or family?

And TM can get twice the commission!

What about a system where only some fraction of the ticket sale has to present matching ID?

Example 1: Limit of 6 tickets per purchase. I buy 6 tickets, I invite 5 friends. I show ID at the door and it doesn't matter which 5 friends I bring with me.

Example 2: Same deal, but instead we're allowed 1 "flex" ticket in case someone backs out. Or some proportion allowed as flex.

Obviously this still allows scalping, but it seems less attractive for a scalper to have to attend with the people they're scalping to. Especially if you make 50% of the group show ID.

> Example 1

This is how it works, only the primary purchaser has to show id. You can bring anyone in but you have to show up together, so if you do pay a scalper/reseller then they're at least also a PJ fan and you'll be walking in together.

> Example 2

With the PJ tickets, you actually can sell them, but you just get a refund and they're released back into the ticket pool on ticketmaster.

Curious how was the show? Had you seen them previously and if so how did it compare?

The transfer limitation is specifically to mitigate scalping. What would you prefer?

Ticketmaster is a logo that represents decades of deal making with venues to achieve the status quo.

The only way to defeat it is a RICO case brought by the Federal government, as venues, artists (not all, but many), are collaborating behind closed doors to enable it.

I gave up on big acts long ago because of TM and stick to local bars and local bands. Relativity and all that; I’m in a major metro with many cover bands that nail the vibe of the original and novel acts; not lacking options here. YMMV

I too feel that cover bands nail the vibe of the original. I live in a metro, but I've had a hard time figuring out when and where cover bands play. Some bands don't even have a website.

How do you find out when a cover band of your favorite artist is playing in your city?

ask around in the relevant communities (underground clubs, other relevant venues, zines, pubs)

usually you end up with a few Facebook links

not ideal, but eventually you will know which cover bands are even worth looking out for, and where they would play, so you can monitor sites of the venues

Fugazi is a great example, although not as popular they refused to charge more than $5 for their shows. I saw one in a small venue and it was raw and in your face and just awesome. They also didn't want anything to do with merchandising, insisting that if you wanted a Fugazi shirt then go make your own!

Arpeggiator track:

https://youtu.be/14UBxTCPwjw

The other big thing Fugazi did was completely ignore the traditional venue system.

They’d rent out bowling alleys, Elks Lodges, places like that. Hauler their own PA and lights around

"beating" ticketmaster is pretty easy: play at venues that are not locked up by TM.

But TM really isn't that bad. There's always going to be a problem when demand far exceeds supply. If you went with pure supply/demand sales rich people would buy all.

Do you go to a lot of shows? Ticketmaster is very bad. Abusive even. Regardless of demand.

TicketMaster has used their market dominance to be display incompetence in customer service with no consequences. Emailed me a "make sure to have your tickets at the show, we mailed them" the day of, sending me into a panic because I hadn't received them. Support was something like an hour-long queue to maybe chat with someone in the Philippines with no info, so I said fuck it and bought another ticket will-call in a nicer section--the show in question wasn't something I'd likely have the opportunity to see again for at least a decade.

Got to the venue to discover that I now had two will-call tickets, since that's how I'd originally purchased the first one, but TicketMaster somehow broke that record on their end.

Never encountered that level of bullshit from any of the smaller providers. TicketWeb was great when I lived in a market where they were the majority and Eventbrite is fine AFAIK. But now I live in a major market and TicketMaster is the only option for all but the smallest venues. What are you gonna do if you don't like them, anyway? Buy out the venue yourself?

Why can't they beat them? Advertise your website, people go to your website and click the buy button, a form shows up to fill their card data. What does Ticketmaster do that is better? Don't they have the same workflow?

Most major and minor venues have exclusive ticketing contracts. You can sell tickets to a high school gym but if you want to play anywhere that can handle a real crowd you’re stuck with the monopoly.

So it’s essentially a real estate monopoly at heart?

more like monopoly on the venue service. (a place where you have the permit to organize large group events, so proper exits, toilets, accessibility (if required); bag/clothes storage, waiting area, permit to sell alcohol, staff for all this, sufficient electricity connection, HVAC, ability to assemble a stage and the frame for lights and the soundsystem)

for example rave organizers in LA can do it in a lot of potential warehouses, because they have the staff & process to get the permits, setup the tech, cleanup, etc.

but as the gig grows fewer and fewer venues can host it, and that's how LiveNation managed to consolidate most of the high-capacity venue market

and there is efficiency in vertical integration, for everyone involved. what people find atrocious is the lack of cost breakdown transparency.

bands and ticketmaster/LiveNation could simply hide everything, display just the actual final price and then distribute the cash according to their actual contracts (which they do anyway)

why they anger the masses with this is completely beyond me, but ... after spending a few years on the outskirts of this industry, I think they just have bigger problems, never really understood UX anyways, nothing forces them to do so, aaand it absolutely keeps the conversation on them and not on bands/venues, etc.

So why don't some enterprising well known artists/VCs/record labels/ pool together some money to build a new large venue, and control the ticketing themselves?

Big record labels are absolutely uninterested in this. They get their cut and that's it. Small labels don't matter.

Festival headliners, and other big big big artists in general have managers, make a shitton of money, have a lot of other problems on tours besides ticketing anyway, plus they have guest lists, so in the end they don't care.

Those few artists that are big and care, well, they care to solve the problem for their own situation, for their fans, and don't really want to solve the general problem.

Because in general it's not their problem. :/

Oh and LiveNation is a public company, it has a nice business moat, so it's like a successful unicorn.

> What does Ticketmaster do that is better?

A large war chest with which to pay venues for the exclusive right to sell tickets there.

Most artists don’t want to charge $20, they want to charge $200 and blame it on someone else. That is a big part of the value proposition for ticket master. And they can allow ticket resale so the artist/promoter gets another cut, so shows sell out faster.

You underestimate Taylor Swift fans.

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