Why do you guys hate Elon with your guts with such an intense passion?
Why do you guys hate Elon with your guts with such an intense passion?
If you ignore everything we are hearing about mass employee exodus and critical teams having no engineers left.
> Why do you guys hate Elon with your guts with such an intense passion?
To put it bluntly, because he is an asshole.
I honestly don’t know how anyone likes him after he called a cave diver who helped save a bunch of children a pedo just because he said that Musks proposed submarine rescue wouldn’t work.
His ego is immense and he lacks the emotional maturity to not lash out at people when he is wrong.
On top of all that he is a billionaire, which is an inherently immoral thing to be IMO.
A good person cannot amass that much wealth and not give away 99% of it to help people who need it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtJwAYJ9B08
The whole pie has gotten larger since the industrial revolution and has lifted people out of poverty at an unprecendented rate through Capitalism.
The current zeitgeist in places like HN and in progressive circles is worrying. There was just a recent thread about how India lifted people out of poverty and people were downvoting pro-Capitalist comments even though that's the truth no matter how you twist it.
The immoral part comes after that when they sit on their horde of money, far too much for anyone to spend in 10 lifetimes, while they should be giving it to people and causes that need it.
The only one of the "mainstream", household name billionaires that gets it seems to be MacKenzie Scott.
I commend him for donating $6 billion, that is an objectively good thing, but what the hell is he going to do with $10 billion in cash? He can live a life of lavish luxury with 1% of that.
This is just elementary misunderstanding of "billionaires".
> To put it bluntly, because he is an asshole.
A few years ago some data/articles made the rounds showing that most billionaires and high-powered executives are "psychopaths" according to the criteria for "psychopathy".
It isn't necessarily Elon specific but his public outbursts certainly put him in the spotlight, others lay low.
2. Linking to an article that claimed Paul Pelosi's attacker was involved in a gay love triangle and it was a lover's quarrel.
3. Pedo guy
4. Making blue check marks paid leading to many parody accounts mimicking companies making offensive tweets. Then when those companies cut advertising claiming without evidence activist groups are conspiring against him.
Etc
I switched to Republican party since 2020 election, I wouldn't vote for election deniers [1] but plenty of people are doing the right thing. Rationality and reason seems to have shifted from liberals to conservatives. We can't even say biological facts. Many others are leaving the woke non-sense, I want my damn liberal party back from the 90's that was pro free speech and had a kernel of reason. Not this CCP-like authoritarianism path that we're heading towards.
That said, party preference shouldn't be the reason to hate someone with passion like this. I admire plenty of progressive leaders and conservatives alike.
Regarding 2/3/4, these are not the reasons to pick up pitchforks and hate someone with guts. He has done so many positive things for the world that completely outweight these quibbles.
[1] That includes democrats:
Isn't it the Republicans that are still saying homosexuality is a choice? Aren't they the ones aligned with QAnon woke-conspiracies? Aren't they ones that pushed that Obama was born in Africa?
What biological facts do Democrats say you can't say? At worst, Dems maybe bend over too much to be inclusive to those that historically haven't been included.
I'll just hold my breath for that moment.
<dies>
https://twitter.com/LPofDelaware/status/1583078489430798336
What would be helpful is if you try to, with good faith, head over to r/conservatives and see what the discussion is like. They will welcome progressives and disagreeing views. They'll upvote you. The same cannot be said about the reverse. Conservative opinions here are completely unwelcome, not even downvoted but flagged. Turn on the show-flagged filter on HN and I'd wager atleast half of them are totally legit, not rude and not bigoted. They're just offering a different perspective.
Both sides are equally consumed and spineless. Republicans caved into Trumpism and the liberals caved into woke ideology. Both sides instead of rejecting extremism, adopted it and dug their heels in. We lost truth and rationality in the process. At this time in history, centrist republicans are the most rational.
and...instantly downvoted. Care to please comment below? What do you disagree with what I just said here?
I think that there are fringe elements on both sides. I do think there is a legit difference though in that the mass of the conservatives hold views that are to me far worse.
For example, there might be a fringe of liberals that think that women and men are the same height on average -- or think there are no physical differences. But the VAST majority believe there are differences. But I think a far higher percentage of conservatives think that homosexuality is a choice. That's a very mainstream belief I've seen -- even in my own family.
I think what liberals struggle with, IMO, aligns with my values, even if the positions that arise I disagree with. For example, trans athletes. I think its unfair to women to compete against people who were born men. At the same time, I sympathize with people who really feel like they were born the wrong gender and are doing everything they can to change genders. I don't have a satisfactory solution, but I empathize with the liberal response. The conservative response doesn't even seem to recognize that trans people have any struggle at all.
Centrist Republicans today might be the most rational. But they are even getting run out of the party. I never thought I'd say, "Wow, I miss George Bush".
There is a more balanced take than the standard conservative and liberal positions: the left-wing feminist response.
With this, trans-identifying people are supported with regards to universal rights, i.e. ones that everyone should have, according to left-wing viewpoints. For example, it should not be permitted for someone to be fired from their job for revealing their transness (or for being otherwise gender non-conforming). Same for access to housing, health care, and other public services, no prejudice must be imposed.
However, they should not be treated as if the opposite sex in law and policy. This is particularly important in areas where we have sex segregation for a good reason. You mentioned athletes, another example is the safeguarding of women in prisons - women's prisons should be female-only, and no males should be incarcerated there, no matter how they identify.
This overall approach helps to protect gender non-conforming people (including trans-identifying), while maintaining sex-based rights, particularly those that protect women.
George Bush started a war based on the lie of WMD that resulted in a massive cost of lives and money for the US. Even base level Republicans are horrible
This is absolutely untrue. I generally do not engage in political discussion on hackernews so politics entirely aside, from a reddit content moderation standpoint this is just a falsehood. It is one of the most tightly moderated subreddits on the website and users are banned rapidly and constantly for posting dissenting views or sharing information contradicting the prevailing narrative for any given issue. Anyone who attempts the exercise you suggest will learn that right away. There are certainly subreddits on both sides of the political aisle moderated in that manner but you are just making an absolute fabrication to say /r/conservative is not, and I'm assuming that's why you were downvoted. That and because you bring this falsehood up instead of answering the direct questions the user you're replying to asked you, and it doesn't address their questions at all.
For what it's worth, I didn't downvote you.
So you're accusing me of making it up? malice? I am just stating what I've experienced for over a year of browsing and participating on r/conservative.
Instead of trusting me or you, I'll just leave the link here for people to decide: https://www.reddit.com/r/conservative
And to add to the accusation, I've found the opposite on Reddit and HN. Stating conservative opinions are not welcomed at all. It's not even slightly off. The situation is completely lop-sided.
Next time you accuse some of "absolute fabrication", consider the best interpretation of their experience.
>a place on Reddit for conservatives, both fiscal and social, to read and discuss political and cultural issues from a distinctly conservative point of view.
And the further explanation linked in the sidebar:
>We are not a debate forum for left wing people. Conservatives can debate one another...We are not a place for explanation. /r/Conservative is for conservatives to discuss and share news with other conservatives
>We are not fair and balanced. We don't pretend to be unbiased. We don't pretend to give all commenters equal time. This is by conservatives and for conservatives.
I think that description contradicts the characterization you made of this community in your earlier reply as "welcoming progressive and disagreeing viewpoints." That's why I think you may just be mistaken about what you see being discussed, because by its own definition that community is not actually exposing you to equitable discussion of progressive or contradictory viewpoints.
I would agree Reddit and HN do skew to the left overall but that's entirely beside the point of whether or not /r/conservative is a community openly welcoming discussion from both sides of the aisle. I agree people can and should reach their own decision but in my opinion the subreddit's sidebar makes its purpose readily apparent and anyone's experience participating in discussion will likely line up to it. And again, this is all really tangential to that commenter's original reply to you, and I'm going to bow out now with the postscript that I would have liked to read your answer to their question.
The people who create the laws have the power. What laws they create and their policies is what matters. They are also voted in, meaning people support their views.
Anyone can just say ,"I'm a Democrat and all kittens should be killed" hell, someone could lie to make a particular side look bad. However a person who has support behind them, like a politician, pundits, etc, those people matter and define what represents a political ideology.
For example Biden doesn't support defunding the police nor has that happened I believe anywhere (there might be 1 or 2 exceptions). Republicans, by that I mean politicans, on the other hand have enacted their views into law
What laws have the Democrats pushed or enacted for woke ideology?
The Republican party is moving us towards Facism.
You are complaining about woke culture but that's something people do. What laws have Democrats proposed that has to do with being "woke". Let me ask that in another way. How does voting for Republicans change woke culture?
The election deniers are being supported by the Republican party,including financially. They could kick them out at anytime. It's a two way relationship, a person has to be a republican and they must accept that person. By allowing people like MGT to be in the party it's a tacit approval of their views
As for free speech , the Republican party had put into law multiple restrictions on freedom of speech in the last four years, give me an example of one law the Democrats created that restricted speech?
If you need sources from me let me know
Compare him to some similar cases. Larry Ellison is a cutthroat executive, huge Republican donor, and is known to make abrasive and belligerent public statements. He was even temporarily the richest man in the world (there was a week in the early 2000s where Microsoft's stock dipped, putting Gates at #2). But he doesn't get the irritation that Musk gets because he stays off Twitter. He doesn't try to stick himself and his brand everywhere. Brian Armstrong banned activism at Coinbase and that also attracted backlash, but he's not seen as a hugely toxic figure. That's because that announcement was in the form of a long dry company policy statement, not by declaring himself to be a free speech absolutist or some sort of protector of not being political in the workplace.
So long story short is, beyond Musk's corporate actions and political stances, he has made himself to be a public irritant. People who don't like his actions and stances are going to be extra-aggrieved by it. I think in some ways there is a certain strategy to it, as we've seen since 2015, to use the negative emotions stirred up in social media to bolster one's aims. Musk has embraced the mantle of a universal celebrity, one who can produce infinite amounts of admiration from his devotees... and infinite amounts of annoyance from those who disagree strongly.
A pretty good video likening that public style to magician's tricks here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkvvAQxxo_0