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Comment by jasonlotito | Hacker News Reader

> China isn't going to listen to your rules

And then they are banned. Not because they are China or TikTok, but because they break specific rules we hold everyone to.

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Espionage is covert by definition, and is already illegal. Spies break foreign laws as a part of their job description, and yet, they still exist.

This is a great argument for expelling all Chinese people, people of Chinese descent, people who have said anything nice about China, and people who have never said anything nice about China but I think are hindering our competitiveness against them.

Can someone downvoting explain how this is not an implication or were people thinking this parent wasn't criticizing grandparent?

It is a nonsequitur that the existence of spies necessitates widespread banning of people by national origin. We did this during WWII and it was clearly a misguided mistake.

A lot of people in this thread don't seem to realize how they are starting down a path that will inevitably lead to McCarthyist fascism.

You won't be able to tell when they're not following the rules.

Just stop moving the goalposts while discussing and people might take you more seriously

Err, pretty sure that was the entire premise of my post -- that you wouldn't be able to tell when they're not complying unless you audit and sign all their code before distribution.

This seems like an argument no Chinese software on American devices, what makes the difference?

No, it's the opposite argument, that we SHOULDN'T do that because one it's impractical, and two if they actually did it, the solution (mass government wiretapping and auditing and pre-censorship of all "foreign" apps) would be worse than the problem it's trying to solve (TikTok not playing nice).

I'm no fan of the CCP, but I'd take Chinese propaganda over American censorship any day.

...they haven't moved any goalposts...

You need to work on your reading comprehension.

We regulate foreign companies that do business in the US in other markets, what makes this one special?

If we actually care about surveillance by App, we have to make rules that can prevent that including requiring levels of access and transparency to enforce those rules.

Of course, there is little appetite for making those rules... But that doesn't mean that such rules are impossible.

Well the FBI seems able to tell, or else why are they alleging it poses a national security concern?

I think it's more of a "China has been known to conduct mass espionage/monitoring of its citizens and abroad. Given that known fact, TikTok poses a concern." Don't think there's hard proof they are doing nefarious things via TikTok.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/emilybaker-white/2022/10/20/tik...

> A China-based team at TikTok’s parent company, ByteDance, planned to use the TikTok app to monitor the personal location of some specific American citizens, according to materials reviewed by Forbes.

We won't be able to tell when they're not following the rules that are not important enough to impose on domestic companies?

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