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Comment by machina_ex_deus | Hacker News Reader

I feel like this world cup is going to lead to chaos in an unpredictable way. Taking international fans and putting them under strict no alcohol policy, and other weird authoritarian measures like no kissing in public is going to fail spectacularly. Not a matter of whether I think people should respect other cultures, it's a matter of knowing some people won't.

They will probably instruct their local police to turn a blind eye. But if they don't, I bet this is going to lead to diplomatic crisis one way or the other.

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I think there'll be a few diplomatic incidents for sure - people will get busted sneaking alcohol and drugs in, many will be arrested for breaking various local laws. But I don't imagine it'll be too chaotic, I think it'll just be a damp squib of a World Cup overall.

A recent Guardian report accused Qatar of physically abusing gay Qataris and recruiting them as agents to track down gay attendees of the WC[0]. These people had zero problem killing thousands to build the stadiums, do not underestimate their capacity for cruelty.

0: https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/nov/15/gay-qataris...

Yeah read that, it's pretty horrific. I figured they'd probably manage to hold off now that the eyes of the world are on them - or I hoped at least.

and other weird authoritarian measures like no kissing in public is going to fail spectacularly.

At least ostensibly, big worldwide events like this (Olympics, World's Fair, etc.) are about cultural exchange. There's no room for exchange under authoritarianism.

When you go to someone’s home you follow their rules. And being thrown in jail for a spell would probably do some of these European soccer fans some good.

But if someone offers to host an event in their home, they need to understand the requirements and expectations of that event, and if they do not agree to them, then they should not host it.

Having said that it's not unreasonable to have a alcohol free World Cup. The problem is the 48h notice is unreasonable. If I have planned a trip with a view to sit and enjoy watching a match with a beer, and now I am not able to, that's the problem.

TBF I don't think you can sit an enjoy the game with a beer in most stadiums in the UK... You can have one before, at half time, and at the end. But not while you watch.

That’s true, you can’t take alcohol to your seat while you watch the match in the UK but you can still buy alcohol at the stadium.

My understanding is that the alcohol ban applies even when watching in fan-zones outside of the stadiums.

thing is, they wouldn't have hosted the WC had they been honest about what the beer policy was going to be.

Brazil also doesn't sell beer in stadiums and they had to temporarily change rules while the WC was in town

You model this situation as a host-guest relation when it's more like a business-client relation especially when they agreed beforehand to comply and meet the conditions and rules set out by the international governing/organizing body of the sport/competition only to renege on them some hours prior to the official launch and kickoff of the tournament.

Also, I have to call out the authoritarian and gloating tone in your comment at the misfortune of other regular folks for the mere crime of loving and enjoying football/soccer.

It's like someone bribed the organiser of a house party to choose their house, promising they'd be cool even though noone really liked them. Then 5 minutes before the party, when everyone was already on their way, the host decided, "actually I'm banning your alcohol, and your music and your dancing. My house my rules".

It's too late to change the host, but it doesn't mean you have to accept the whole shit show and not call them out

Can you imagine the international and diplomatic chaos that would ensue from world cup fans getting to jail in Qatar over things that are morally acceptable in their country of origin? I think FIFA would be blamed for the decision to host the world cup in Qatar too, the country of origin would be in a pickle too, and some media will definitely fan the flames (pun intended). Depending on the timing it can even lead to protests during the world cup itself.

I think the entire thing is explosive, and the recent response of Qatar to ban alcoholic sales (whether it's acceptable or not I don't care) shows that they have no idea they are walking on thin ice, and that's a bad sign. Whatever Qatar or the fans should've done might matter for you to pick a side, but I personally think those responsible are whoever brought the fire and oil together, neither the fire nor oils fault for exploding when they met. I think Qatar is also pretty shortsighted for not realizing the damage they are going to do to themselves might be much more than the advantage.

> Can you imagine the international and diplomatic chaos that would ensue from world cup fans getting to jail in Qatar over things that are morally acceptable in their country of origin?

Yes, unfortunately this is a serious problem with us in the West. We feel hugely entitled to behave as we like anywhere in the world.

Case in point Grinder taking cannabis products into Russia. Shocking behaviour by most of the world's standards. But apparently didn't even cross her mind Russia has its own rules.

I'd say I'm a heavy drinker. But even I can see that forgoing alcohol in a foreign country is as obvious as me stopping smoking weed when I get home from Amsterdam.

> I'd say I'm a heavy drinker. But even I can see that forgoing alcohol in a foreign country is as obvious as me stopping smoking weed when I get home from Amsterdam.

Not really the same as Qatar pulled the rug on the alcohol ban 2 days before the event starts...

Don't think there's a good analogy for that, even if you had planned a trip to Amsterdam years in advance for some big event and they completely banned weed 2 days before said event wouldn't be the same, the expectations around alcohol and weed are quite different for the intended audience of said event.

To be fair weed is illegal in Amsterdam only tolerated.

Personally I just don't see recreational drugs (that includes alcohol) a big deal.

But remember it's not completely banned you can drink at the festival and the hotels. You just can't buy alcohol in the stadium. Bud 0% is available.

No big deal in my book.

On the one hand, football fans do have a pretty terrible record of behavior.

On the other, nobody deserves this kind of blatant bait-and-switch after they've paid for their nonrefundable tickets. And bad behavior by one person does not justify bad behavior by another - or to other innocent members of the same group.

Why? They can still go and watch all the football games they’ve paid for.

Being outraged that they’re not allowed to drink beer during a football match in Qatar is more an indication of their alcohol dependency.

Being outraged on a bait-and-switch of expectations around what is the ritual of watching a football match changes their expected experience.

I'm no fan of football but I can understand that for most this is part of the ritual, having that changed without prior notice just 2 days away from the event does upset some people. I don't think taking the literal "you paid to watch football matches" really helps you to understand the outrage, there's a dependency on alcohol, yes, there was also an expectation that was broken.

Gotta love a party where the host imposes its will on everybody else. Not.

The world cup fans will probably outnumber the Qatari... They can just take over the country.

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