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Comment by shric | Hacker News Reader

Dark pattern #1: Allowing the user to download the app and only then requiring the user to login/signup. This is because you know very well almost nobody will bother to try your terminal if you make it clear you require a login up front. But if they've gone to the trouble of downloading it, dragging it to Applications and running it, then maybe they'll go all the way.

Dark pattern #2: On sign-up, you "agree to our terms of service" but then you have the gall to say, on unsubscribe: "you are currently subscribed to our opt-in messaging. Do you want to remove yourself from opt-in messaging?"

Agreeing to a 17 page terms of service document might be technically "opting in" to messaging (spam), but it sure isn't in spirit. Opting in is when you click on a, previously unchecked, check box that has "I'd like to receive marketing from you".

I'm sure there's plenty more but I uninstalled it already.

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I'm going to go straight to "Any terminal or shell which initiates network connections as part of its core execution model, is a huge no from me".

Think about all the things you type into a shell, via a terminal!

Stable Diffusion hentai plots.

The one exception I'd give is for actual remote terminals (e.g. old-style TTYs), which are inherently making some sort of network requests. SSH (Secure SHell) would be much less useful if it couldn't make network requests as part of its core execution model!

Of course for a local terminal emulator no such requests are necessary.

If you're on Apple iTerm solves most of the problems outlined in this blog post. Option+click moves cursor wherever you want, cmd+click on any url or path to open it. Plus tabs, panes, and a bunch of other neat stuff. Free, open source, no login required, but it'd be cool if you donated to them.

> Option+click moves cursor wherever you want

So it doesn't solve the problem then. The problem is that terminal input doesn't respect[1] the other conventions we're used to. I've used iTerm for... 5 years now? and had no idea option+click was a thing. I even had to enable a non default keybinding preset (something named like "natural keybindings something") to get the basic option+left/right arrows to move the cursor word by word.

I like iTerm, but a more natural prompt option would sure be appreciated. Warp may not be the solution because of dark patterns but there are no reasons to keep terminal input stuck in the past, they're onto something. Just the ability to consider inputs and outputs as more than just text is great: I can actually copy a whole output without having to select the characters and being careful not to go to far/not far enough, or getting stuck because the output was bigger than my configured scrollback. You could also get true output separation between stderr and stdout.

[1]: yes I know it's technically the other way around, no I don't care

That's because the shell can actually use the mouse, so overriding that would break a number of things.

I am glad I checked back here before I clicked "Open" when asked

      “Warp.app” is an app downloaded from the Internet. Are you sure you want to open it?

I had a feeling I should check first .. spidey senses were good...

I've heard of warp but knew nothing about it. I thought you were responding to the post, so I was honestly stunned to realize this comment is about warp itself. That's when I noticed the "pricing" link at the top, and... they want companies to pay per month for a terminal emulator..? They must, because they don't put any actual pricing on that page. That, to me, means rent-seeking. For a terminal emulator.

"Rent-seeking" is blatantly false. Warp is a piece of software that the developers are going to update over time. A subscription model is appropriate for goods and services where the buyers receive value over time due to the continued effort/resources of the producers. You might not want to subscribe to a service or pay for a terminal emulator (I sure don't), but don't lie about it.

"Rent seeking [...] is an economic concept that occurs when an entity seeks to gain added wealth without any reciprocal contribution of productivity."

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/r/rentseeking.asp

A subscription model seems appropriate when the value accrues to the buyer over time without regard to the level of effort expended by the seller.

As a buyer, I care about my cost and the value I receive. I don’t demand to see proof of costs incurred or effort expended on the part of the seller to understand whether I got value in excess of my cost.

When I pay my house insurance or mortgage, I don’t ask the insurer or bank to show me any proof of anything. They’re not rent-seeking in economic terms.

> A subscription model seems appropriate when the value accrues to the buyer over time without regard to the level of effort expended by the seller.

That's a personal opinion, which I disagree with, and is additionally economically unsustainable. But you're free to have that opinion - the problem is sli actively misleading others by using a term like "rent-seeking" with a specific definition where it is categorically incorrect.

Can you describe to me what "reciprocal contribution of productivity" is seen with the business license of this software?

The improvements made to the software by the developers over time.

It's been almost a year since this was last posted and their promised Linux build hasn't emerged. If they're working hard, their optics certainly don't reflect it.

You just ignored everything they have shipped in this period and then claimed they aren't working hard because one item is missing.

They could ship mind-reading functionality next month and I still wouldn't care if I needed to make an account to try it.

Agree. When I stared reading the article I was exited at first. I generally agree that terminals have a lot of legacy issues from the past and could definitely use some innovation. But I don’t see the point why a terminal should require internet-connection at all. There is absolutely no reason any of the features Warp mentions, couldn’t be implemented in a way to work completely offline. Good luck, but I don’t think any people using terminals as their daily drivers will ever use a product like this.

I wish I could upvote this 100 times...

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