'Be' is nice, end of story

Dude.. just found the "for ebay" album on your Flickr profile... omg :(

(Oooh also SGI Onyx2.. nice. I search the term "sgi" on Craigslist every day. All I have is a pair of O2's)

I'm still plugging away with BeOS, have a few Macs running the PowerPC version still.

Edit: also, you're photos made me quite happy. Beautiful machines.

At AT&T (the mothership) we inherited a bunch of NeXT machines from the cellular company they invested in.

Me, I had next to my engineering books multiple BeOS boxed OS copies.

Carried them with me to <large U.S. airplane company> where I installed them on every machine possible. Great times. Running a NeXT pizza box one one side and BeOS on a Dell Latitude on the other, and showing off the multitasking made some of my co-workers weep. (Turbo Color on the NeXT side with the frickin' sound box and monitor).

One of the <research scientists/future tech> co-workers was absolutely into Objective-C. Those were fantastic time showing what /could/ be done.

Edit: until 2016.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/helfer/albums/7215762370071298...

I think after Windows 7 the processes are grouped per application in Task Manager. We’re all grumpy about the redesigns of things we are familiar with, but little UX improvements happen all the time.

Activity Monitor in macOS can do that too.

I think that shows what the target audience is. I think most people wouldn’t know what to do with that prompt, other than immediately discard it.

SerenityOS is also doing a lot to perfect their UX. It might become at least as popular as Haiku down the line.

> It's little things like errors automatically prompting you to open a graphical debugger

If this is the concept of "mainstream" and sensible "user experience" it sounds like Haiku is a complete bunch of horseshit. (And this feature is easily available in Windows anyway)

> Additionally, a 403 Forbidden error was encountered while trying to use an ErrorDocument to handle the request.

As it soon turned out, almost everybody. All that BeFS does, in exchange for a bunch of your disk space and CPU, is BTree indexes, for each index you want your filesystem gets a little slower and bigger. It starts out "Quite a bit worse than some of the alternatives available at the time" and goes down from there. If you switch the indexing off so as to get back reasonable performance, now your email folders are just unsorted and sorting them takes forever as it would on a Windows PC (except your Windows PC has an email client so you wouldn't do that).

This makes for a cool demo of course, which is important if your actual goal is to get Apple to hire you instead of Jobs, but there's a reason why your filesystem did not add this fairly simple feature and you still have an email client.

Everyone who uses more than one device to access his/her e-mail? Sure BeOS had nice features, but it seems to me that it solved the wrong problems.

I'm much happier w/ Quartz (née Display PDF) than the typical image model division which BeOS had.

That said, I really wish someone would get it (and Tron) running on a Raspberry Pi.

They did eventually fix this, but it was too little too late.

I'm not sure I follow why this is a good thing. Having the option is good, but some sort of a sanity check and a warning dialog just seems like looking out for your users.

For example, I recently used Linux on the desktop as my daily driver and wrote about my experiences [1]. At one point, I considered that the system was perhaps a bit of a mess in regards to the installed packages and, not wanting to do a clean reinstall, I figured that I'd just reinstall Python in particular.

There's nothing mystifying about running an apt remove command, nor is there anything outrageous about the idea of removing some software and then later reinstalling it. However, as it turns out, this would probably break certain parts of the system, so I got a helpful warning instead:

  After this operation, 1 244 MB disk space will be freed.
  You are about to do something potentially harmful.
  To continue type in the phrase 'Yes, do as I say!'

  Abort.

Of course, it won't always save you, like Linus from LTT still ignored such a warning and ruined his install somewhat [2].

[1] https://blog.kronis.dev/articles/a-week-of-linux-instead-of-...

[2] https://youtu.be/0506yDSgU7M?t=634

Source: dual BeBox/133 on my desk

Someone should make a programming language where those are the keywords for true and false.

They had their niche

Sadly, now I use it to drive a Pioneer XDJ console. And they made me pay extra for DVS support without the Serato box :( But it's a pretty fly 4-deck system!

I very much hope one day to see another integrated Be-inspired system emerge, in the vein of 00s era Apple (and the original BeBox). Narrow product line, tight hardware-software integration; striking, thoughtful and fun UI; notably different paradigm and features from the competition such that it scratches an itch the others are ignoring.

This bit of history gives me so much hope (tinged with sadness that it's just a daydream). If I knew more about OS or filesystem construction, or how to sell to VCs, I'd push the idea hard myself.

On PowerPC is was a lot more hobbled. You sound like you were on PowerPC unfortunately.

4.5 and 5.0 were so similar that it really isn't worth talking about the differences - a few minor API differences. The main thing with 5.0 was that Tracker was opened, so they moved the About box in to the Kernel to prevent people using a fake one and preserve their copyright notices etc.. The API was really similar and mostly anything that compiles under R4.5 will run under R5. They also added in a bunch of 3rd party codec and changed some of the icons.

In fact, Stinger (BeIA) was based on the 4.5 codebase, not the R5 codebase. This is apparent when you try to use the API and notice anything newer than 4.5 is not present.

> Why did they choose the name Haiku? Error messages from many applications in BeOS are written in haikus. Additionally, they felt that the art of haiku was representative of the elegance and simplicity of BeOS.

It seems Haiku is BeOS, just renamed.

If you want a near-instant-boot appliance with Linux, try Librelec. I think it's made for Kodi but you can use it for other things. Lakka (Retroarch) uses it and gets me to a GUI, ready to interact with, rendering under DRM (so, no X or Wayland) in like 3 seconds flat on a Raspberry Pi. Or, FreeDOS isn't a crazy option for appliance-type machines, depending on what you want to run.

But you’d have been better off lugging around an SE/30.

The initial CPU target for BeOS was the AT&T H0BB1T DSP. The alpha copies were called Shark. I actually have system images for the hobbit builds still floating around somewhere. I never did get my hands on a prototype hobbit bebox, sadly. I almost bought one off a guy in France but the deal fell apart.

Be produced a regular PowerPC version that could be installed on Macs (I think it may have required PCI macs?) and then an x86 version that was 32bit only and had a lot of ... quirks. But I used it for over a decade.

My theory is that you can't really _plan_ how to create and spread an OS: You need to put a dedicated enough person with enough time to write an interesting prototype that would brings you a subsequent advantage. And of course, you need the peoples that will judge wisely about the long run future of this prototype (remember Linux being considered bad?). After this, the prototype have to be mature enough for developers to and hardware makers to support it.

That's a lot of _if_, and I suspect most OS (and in some way, softwares and language) are spontaneous creations that answer a need and become _good_ as a consequence of being used.

It is the reason IBM had to set up a secret ninja tiger team to make the pc. They tried a few times before, and ended up with really nice systems, far nicer than the pc. but they cost 10,000 dollars, in 1980, you are not gong to conquer the small business market for computers with a 10,000 dollar machine. so they set up a secret team, far away from the rest of the ibm mothership apparatus with the mission to make the cheapest computer possible, and they did, it cost 3,000 dollars had nothing compatible with any other ibm and sold like hotcakes.

In general, the hardest problem for such companies is backwards compatibility.

In the case of Apple, it was doubly so: they tried to build a pre-emptive multitasking operating system with memory protection that was backwards compatible (both for applications and system extensions) with an existing OS that had cooperative multitasking, did not have memory protection, and had OS support for patching system calls (a feature that allowed third parties to develop of such things as Switcher (https://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?project=Macintosh&stor...), After Dark, Adobe Font Manager, and RAM Doubler).

Microsoft invested some money in Apple to help alleviate anti-trust issues, but from my reading the more substantive assistance was a commitment to ship Office for Mac.

https://medium.com/the-techlife/why-did-microsoft-invest-150...

I worked on an internet appliance using BeOS around 2000. The device worked, but was unfortunately slow due to the compromises Sony had to make to hit their price point (most notably running the display in portrait mode without hardware rotation, meaning every paint had to rotate in software!) and the lack of software really contributed - the NetPositive browser was fast and had some nice ideas but you’d run into more sites which would have worked in Netscape or Internet Explorer and didn’t have Flash.

I really liked BeOS: BFS’ database-like capabilities are still unmatched and it was years ahead of the curve on stability (I remember crashing the graphics driver & watching it restart, the open apps repainted, and I kept working) and consistent performance (Windows and macOS still have more UI lag under load despite much faster hardware). The fatal flaws, however, were the lack of permissions and immature networking. It was also harder to port Unix software, which mattered a lot at the time since that meant a ton of technical workers could use a Mac with OS X but not a BeOS system. I’m not sure what the assessment was for running Classic Mac apps either but suspect that already hard task would have been harder with a more limited OS. Even at the time I thought Apple made the right call, much as it meant I couldn’t unload some Be shares I’d picked up at a profit.

Apple already had an ecosystem from the Classic Mac OS. It had lots of apps, lots of loyal users, etc. It had issues, but Apple wasn't starting from scratch.

BeOS was simply new. That means trying to get everyone to support a new platform. If you weren't a Mac user back in the day, you might not know how hard it was - getting printers to work, having to buy Mac-specific accessories, etc. The Mac would have millions of users while BeOS would have none. Getting third-parties to support the platform would be incredibly difficult - it was so hard on the Mac already. This was way before a lot of work on platform independence. Also, if you'd run Linux 15-20 years ago on a laptop, you probably remember the issues around stuff like getting WiFi to work. BeOS was trying to launch a new ecosystem in an era before the web really took over and when native apps and drivers were important and not cross-platform.

Maybe think about a different question: why did Windows Phone fail when the iPhone and Android didn't? Well, it was a third platform and an also-ran with almost no marketshare. Developers didn't want to support a third platform when users saw no need for it. Users didn't want to buy into a third platform without apps.

Still, one of the major things for Be was that Microsoft forbid OEMs from offering BeOS on their machines - if they wanted to be able to get Windows OEM licenses. So Be was locked out of every PC company. If you were Dell, you might tell Be, "we'd love to offer customers the option of getting a Dell with BeOS, but we can't because we need Microsoft's Windows licenses." So if you bought a PC, it'd come with Windows and then you'd need to buy BeOS and install that. Now you had a great OS with nothing to run on it and you'd go back to Windows. Be did make BeOS free at one point, but it was too late (and even at free it lacked a reason to be run).

The Mac had built up marketshare, a userbase, application support, drivers, etc. for a decade when BeOS launched. BeOS launched at a time when Microsoft had sewn up the PC market and was in its full-monopoly, anti-competition stance. They used their power to crush all rivals on the PC.

Apple, even though they had some limited clones, was never really a rival. Apple was a hardware/software combo play and small enough to be ignored as a declining niche player. Did Microsoft "save" Apple? Probably not. They did invest some money and committed to make Microsoft Office available on Mac which certainly helped (remember, this is before the age when things could read .doc and .xls files and Microsoft was still in anti-competition mode where they'd try and break competitors products).

Still, it seems more like Microsoft wanted to keep one player around to stave off anti-trust concerns - and Apple was the safe one to keep around. If they kept Be around, BeOS would need to get some meaningful marketshare (let's say 5%). At that point, what's to stop more people from running BeOS? Nothing - their Pc could just run BeOS. If they kept Apple around with 5% marketshare, what's to stop more people from running MacOS? The fact that they'd need to buy new hardware from Apple at a premium price point with inferior capabilities. That's safe. People can't switch. And Intel was killing PowerPC processors at the time and PCs were available for $500 while Apple finally introduced a budget machine at $1,300. Here's a $500 eMachines with 300MHz processor or an iMac for $1,300 and 233MHz processor - and things got worse from there as the years went on. The point being, Apple was never a threat to Windows because MacOS was tied to separate hardware. BeOS was a huge threat to Windows if Be got any traction. They needed to be killed.

Apple's real resurgence wasn't via Mac OS or even Mac OS X. It was via the iPod. They just started making so much money. Money means you can invest in things. Then the iPhone meant even more money. Then their computers were still expensive, but had a much lower premium than they used to - especially if you account for things like display quality.

Maybe Be could have launched a BePod, but they didn't. Maybe Be could have parlayed that success into a BePhone. Maybe Be could have used all that to become a player on the desktop. But they built the BeIA internet appliance which was just a computer, but worse. Apple removed the floppy drive and Be removed both the floppy and CD drive - at a time when computers were becoming music hubs.

BeOS launched in October 1995. Apple bought NeXT in 1996 and launched the iMac in 1998 and iPod in 2001. BeOS was such a flash in the pan. Blink and you'd miss its 5 year existence. BeOS R5 (the final released version) came out in March 2000, less than 5 years after the initial launch. In a lot of ways, they never really got any traction - but they did get a lot of love from the people who used it. BeOS was magical in many ways (even if somewhat unfinished in others). At a time when the Mac OS had cooperative multitasking and would just freeze up, at a time when Mac OS X was unusably slow, at a time when Windows was a jumble of crap that never quite worked right, BeOS was this clean, modern, happy system. In many ways, it had Mac-like polish and coordination to it combined with such a modern developer experience and so many great ideas.

But it's hard to get over the hump necessary to create the momentum that brings developers and users. Apple already had those users and developers (even if it was a small community compared to Windows). Then Apple had some amazing hits with the iPod and iPhone.

If SGI or BeBox had been the first to market with such a sexy laptop, we'd still have them around.

It was the lack of focus on laptops which killed Be and SGI (and others), but it was the focus on laptops as personal computing devices which saved Apple.

I'd kill for an alternative-universe SGI or Be laptop. Imagine the tiBook with Irix or BeOS on it .. delicious ..

Its easily one of the sexiest machines in my retro-computing collection. Sure, the SGI boxes actually have some useful software - but the BeBox has sexier blinkenlights by far. ;)