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Comment by nopenopenopeno | Hacker News Reader

Exchange users are the only ones who cannot withdraw their funds. Bitcoin users can always withdraw their funds.

How do you withdraw Bitcoin for something you can actually use? A fund means a sum of money. Bitcoin isn’t money in the normal sense. It never got to that point.

If everyone kept their own wallets, bitcoins value would tank to pre-2017 numbers.

I don't. I pay the counterparty directly with lightning for under 200 fiat equivalent, or on chain for larger purchases.

The point is, I never need to buy fiat (what you call withdrawing)

Is "under 200 fiat" the same as "under $200 transaction fee" in USD?

And where are you that most counterparties accept BTC? El Salvador?

Not the parent, but I think they meant "for purchases under $200 in value I use the lightning network, for larger transactions I do a direct transaction". The $200 was not talking about transaction fees AFAIK.

Doesn't using the lightning network necessitate moving the BTC to it?

Either you are living in a completely different world or exaggerating the number of transactions by a lot. I do dozens of transaction per day from grocery to digital items to service to bill payment to repair and so much more. I am pretty sure almost no one in that group accepts crypto.

How? You can't change them for dollars/euro's/.. without an exchange? I guess you could sell them to a private person but then it wouldn't effect the BTC/USD rate.

You can exchange BTC all you want, but if you exchange (verb) it then it’s no longer BTC. Likewise, if it’s sitting on an exchange (noun) then it’s not BTC.

Normally I would have sympathy but if you post on HN then I have trouble taking it seriously that you can’t figure this out. How could it possibly be any more obvious?

> .. if it’s sitting on an exchange (noun) then it’s not BTC.

I'm sorry but you lost me here. If I stall my BTC's in a wallet on an exchange, they remain BTC's?

Also I have a feeling that you're not getting my point. It is the selling/buying of BTC's for USD at the BTC exchanges that determines the official BTC/USD rate. Sure you can also exchange them for something else (if the exchange lets you), but this will not affect the BTC/USD rate.

So if on an your exchange you're unable to withdraw your BTC's, you can't sell them, which means you're unable to affect the BTC/USD rate: I.E. BTC price will not go down.

What kind of off-ramp can they use?

The ultimate goal of bitcoin is to be the off-ramp, not need an off-ramp.

There is a huge subset of bitcoin TrueBelievers™ who regularly buy bitcoin with their local fiat with no intent of ever selling it back for fiat, but instead wait and invest elsewhere in expanding the network of people and institutions who will accept it directly for goods and services, e.g. El Salvador.

Most of these people are ready for a very long winter and a longer game on the order of decades.

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