Amazon founder Jeff Bezos pledges to give away most of his wealth
bbc.co.uk
bbc.co.uk
Can you explain why the naive assumption is wrong? Because I actually can't, not without more thought and research than I've given it.
> Then your net worth is $110 and when you give away $10 your net worth goes down $10.
Gates' wealth fluctuates all the time. There was a time when he was rather low due to his donations - multiple 10s of billions down. He got back over $100B from cca $50B - that's $50B more for charity than if he just donated everything he had left.
Gates can give substantially more money if he leverages it to grow over time. I would wager that it is going to take decades if ever that the Gates fund will hit $0. Yeah it's not as flashy as "Died with $0 of his fortune left", but under the hood the net good done is orders of magnitude greater.
If you can do that in perpetuity, then it actually means you're giving away none of your wealth away. You're selling the time value of money back to the people that generated it for you.
You've essentially taken out a giant loan, but the interest is being borne by the people who generated that wealth for you in the first place. And your "charity" amounts to sometimes reimbursing those people for paying the interest.
For instance, Chuck Feeney gave away billions until it he was left with only $2 million (or so it was reported).
If they truly wanted to just give it away, Chuck Feeney offer a straight forward model for doing so. You just do it. If "giving it away" merely means putting it into a foundation you control, many people would feel that little has, in fact, been given away.
And the PR? Let the guy have his fame, he's really worked for it.
Not to mention all the pond scum it draws in that has to be constantly filtered out.
MacKenzie Scott can’t give her wealth away fast enough, for example.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/20/business/mackenzie-scott-...
To be fair, neither can Bill Gates.
So it points to something fundamental about the way in which wealth works that these people can't give money away fast enough. Doesn't mean it's a problem though. Having money flowing up to Gates, Bezos, Scott and then having them give it away is probably the best we can do in the current legal and regulatory environment. Because the reality is that any efforts to change how things currently work would meet with too much resistance from others in power.
Edit: wrt to your reply, agree to disagree.
Better to ignore empty PR nonsense and wait for billions in philanthropy to actually materialize before showering sociopaths with praise and adoration.
State money already goes to a dizzying array of non-profit and religious institutions. Anywhere from local homeless and addiction services to the University of Notre Dame. Why should primary and secondary schools be excluded?
> Private schools are fundamentally capitalistic
This is a meaningless statement. The VST majority of private schools in the US are non-profits.
> they serve their (generally wealthy) patrons, not society.
Religious schools in the US started out as a cheap way to educate the poor in reading. Catholic schools in particular still serve poorer communities and are low cost. Residential assignment in public schools comes from a legacy of segregation and anti-catholic laws. The wealth will always have their pick of education for their children and always have. Denying funding for poor students that want to opt out of their shitty assigned schools just perpetuates injustice.
I understand that you disagree, and you probably have thought-out reasons for that. You'll just have to understand that I do as well, and we can both skip the hours of wasted time where we try to convince each other (or an imaginary audience).
You could say that private schools would attempt to serve anyone they can (just like any business), but public schools rob them of the opportunity. In this system, only the rich can escape, while non-rich get stuck with a botched socialized system at taxpayers' expense. Donating to allow more people to escape the public schools is thus a great cause.
[0] https://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/ny-oped-ny-school-spendi... [1] https://www.census.gov/data/tables/2020/econ/school-finances... [2] https://www.empirecenter.org/publications/ny-per-pupil-schoo...
The problem is charity with the privatising of schooling as a condition. Not unlike charity with the purchase of a specific type of seed sold by a specific company as a condition.
There is the establishment clause of the constitution in the US, which prevents the nation from establishing state sponsored religion. Courts have been pretty clear that compulsory religious elements in public school violates the establishment clause.
> The problem is charity with the privatising of schooling as a condition. Not unlike charity with the purchase of a specific type of seed sold by a specific company as a condition.
I have no idea what you mean by this.
Gates offers charity only under specific conditions, especially in Africa. He gives charity for schooling, if it's for private schools he could make money off of elsewhere (at the expense of public schools). He gives charity for agriculture, if it's for some specific seeds he makes money off of (at the expense of the local people choosing what they think is appropriate). He distorts poor economies towards his own ends, that is the problem.
Is he actually doing that?
In the meantime he's given away billions, but obviously he's invested the billions he still has, so unless his (doubtlessly world-class) money managers were completely incompetent he's going to at least break even.
The Bill and Melinda Gates foundation "now spends more on global health every year than the World Health Organization — not to mention more than most countries on the planet."[1]
But that philanthropy has its critics. One criticism is that it's very opaque and it's impossible to measure how effective it is. It's also both hugely influential and unaccountable.
Also, from the above-linked article:
"One 2008 article by two Oxford researchers, published in The Lancet, argued that the Gates Foundation was "misfinancing global health" — paying most of its grants out to rich countries and prioritizing infectious diseases (such as HIV/AIDS and malaria) over major chronic killers such as obesity, cancer, and diabetes."
"Another 2009 paper in The Lancet, by a group of University College London health and development researchers, found that despite the Gates Foundation's emphasis on improving the lives of the poor, its grants didn't actually reflect the burden of disease that the poorest face."
"An example: the Gates Foundation has received lots of positive press for its role in financing the eradication of polio. And yet, even that campaign had its critics, says McGoey. In her research, she found key stakeholders in some of the countries that were the focus of the campaign expressing the view that "this was really a priority of wealthy nations and not necessarily developing ones, many of which were more preoccupied with battling illnesses that created a far greater health burden in their nations [such as diarrhoeal diseases in India]. They were compelled to emphasize polio [eradication] against their will."
"Another concern that comes up in the academic literature is that the Gates Foundation is too focused on drugs, vaccines, and other technological solutions for global health problems. But many researchers, by contrast, would prefer a focus on the less exciting but crucial work of strengthening the health systems of poorer countries."
"For similar reasons, the Gates Foundation's work on malaria drew criticism from some corners. In a 2013 article in Global Society, Youde pointed out that the head of WHO’s malaria research, Arata Kochi, sent a memo complaining that the foundation "was stifling debate on the best ways to treat and combat malaria, prioritising only those methods that relied on new technology or developing new drugs.""
"The Gates Foundation has played an extremely negative role in efforts to develop replacements for strong patent rights and high drug prices," James Love, the director of Knowledge Ecology International and a critic of the foundation, writes on his blog. Or as McGoey put it: "There’s immense concern surrounding the Gates Foundation’s position on intellectual property rights, and whether this major global health player is cognizant enough to ensure property rights are fair for citizens in wealthy and poor nations."
[1] - https://www.vox.com/2015/6/10/8760199/gates-foundation-criti...
Note that while I think most of the other replies are not necessarily pertinent in that giving away trickles is clearly not "most," the Gates Foundation has given a total of $65.6 billion to date, which is more than half of the Gates family's current net worth, but it isn't funded solely by him. That also means he can't decide unilaterally what to spend the money on, though. I was under the impression it was mostly global health until recently. The education initiatives are relatively new.
He could easily still be on track to give away some amount equal to whatever his net worth is on death by his death, though, and still meet a pledge to do it while alive. I don't know that anyone of extremely high net worth has ever tried to give away 50% all at once. I'm not sure that's even feasible in terms of finding organizations that could take and use that much money in a single year, other than donating directly to the US Treasury general fund.
Beware of practicing your righteousness before other people in order to be seen by them, for then you will have no reward from your Father who is in heaven. Thus, when you give to the needy, sound no trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may be praised by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your giving may be in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you.
We have a similar notion in Islam called Riyaa' (رياء), where not only will the person engaging in it not get any rewards in the Hereafter, but he would be actively punished for it.
Intention matters. It is possible that doing a major good deed in public is the right thing to do in order to get other people to do the same. It's all about setting your intentions right.
Asked by CNN whether he intended to give away most of his wealth within his lifetime, Mr Bezos told the network: "Yeah, I do."
https://thehighasia.com/private-charity-just-another-scam-fo...
If you make a foundation, you can pay people to run it, and they can be friends of yours, even family members, but it's not like you can pay them ridiculous amounts of money compared to other foundations. That would be illegal.
That's not to say some people don't try that, I'm sure. But if they abuse it to much, they will likely get caught eventually. Certainly some probably pad just a little, and nobody raises a fuss, but it's not like some instant magic hide from estate tax thing. It's more like, hire your kid that's to stupid/lazy to work for a living. Sure it can be a totally cushy job. It's not any different than mom and pop's grocery store back in the day hiring their idiot kids to make sure the back wall of the store doesn't fall over. Sure it's a mostly pointless job, but it's not illegal to do that.
Since it's their money to control, they can of course use it to prop up some particular viewpoint, but it mostly washes out, since both aisles of the political camp can and do stuff like that.
So that article is mostly just uninformed crap, sorry.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/03/business/donor-advised-fu...
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2022-10-03/rich-use-...
Archived links:
From the bloomberg article:
"The Mercers and the Allenders are among a small but growing number of wealthy Americans who’ve discovered how to bypass rules designed more than a half-century ago to ensure philanthropists stay accountable for the billions of dollars in tax breaks they receive each year. The key is the donor-advised fund, or DAF, which is so flexible that charitable dollars can sit in one indefinitely, and so opaque that no one needs to know either way.
...
In a study of more than 2,600 DAF accounts, the Council of Michigan Foundations found that the majority of donors paid out less than 5% of assets in 2020. More than one-third gave nothing to charity at all. The biggest sponsors of the funds have rebuffed calls to release that kind of account-level data, even as the number of accounts has swelled to more than 1 million. As of 2020, DAFs held almost $160 billion, an 85% increase in four years. Although the industry says it’s paying out more than one-fifth of its assets a year in aggregate, the reality is probably less: Some of the biggest recipients of grants from the funds are other funds, as donors shift money from one sponsor to another."
A DAF *IS* a non-profit itself. It's bound legally to only disperse the funds to other charitable purposes.
So your entire complaint is, the donor gets the tax write off the day they donate it to a DAF, but the funds in the DAF might take a while before getting put to work for a charitable purpose?
Why is that a bad/terrible thing?
They can direct their foundations to give billions of dollars to corporations controlled by their friends, who use that money (after taking a cut, of course) to do whatever it is the foundation was set up to do.
This is one of the things the Bill and Melinda Gates foundation was accused of doing: enriching their friends' corporations.
Of course, their friends can do the same in return, or compensate them in other ways, in money or influence.
That's what I meant when I said "They can direct their foundations to give billions of dollars to corporations controlled by their friends, who use that money (after taking a cut, of course) to do whatever it is the foundation was set up to do."
It's not "given" in the sense of a gift, but given as part of a trade. The corporations they purchase from still profit.
DAF's are not controlled by the contributor, so this does not apply to DAF's AT ALL.
So I still don't see why this is somehow bad.
It doesn't have to be gross overpayment[1], it could just be funneling the money to companies that benefit friends, family, or people they want to influence or get favors in return.
"I still don't see why this is somehow bad"
It's bad because these billionaires get good PR for giving away money and hero worshiped for being selfless benefactors of the needy, while they might be lining their friends' pockets and maybe themselves, just doing so under the veneer of philanthropy.
Whether these "philanthropic" foundations actually do any good, or how much good they do for all the money spent and all the influence they have because of it is yet another issue that's explored elsewhere in this thread and the many articles that have been written about them.
[1] - though I wouldn't be surprised if some foundations get away with this... whether they get caught depends on a lot of things
In your personal dealings, if you have to buy X and your friend sells it and some random stranger sells it, would you rather buy it from your friend? If the answer is yes(which will be true for 99+% of the entire 8 billion people on the planet), then you are being at the very least a touch hypocritical.
I think with your attitude being fairly common, this good PR perspective doesn't seem to necessarily be true.
As for doing good, what does that have to do with anything? There are tons of non-profits out there, that are objectively failing at their mission. Should they all close as well, just because they had a bad year or two? Clearly whoever is funding and controlling the foundations thinks they are doing good. I guarantee even the most widely accepted non-profits get plenty of criticism at failing to do good. Good is not an objective measure anyway. If I think saving the last 2 stuffed Tux penguin's on the planet is important and I'm willing to pay for their continued survival, what does it matter that you think stuffed Tux Penguins is not doing anything good in the world. It's not your resources used to keep the last 2 stuffed Tux Penguins in good condition.
FYI: Foundations are generally required to spend at least 5% of the total fair market value of its noncharitable-use assets from the preceding year on charitable causes. This means that they will almost certainly close eventually.
Then they distribute it back to mend the damage as they see fit, not as society deems needed.
I'm not against millionaires but the exponential level up to billionaires probably shouldn't exist because it means the balance in the system is beyond broken.
No-one has contributed billions of value to society.
you may not like them, but a lack of imagination is no reason to condemn others
No-one has contributed billions of value to society.
Most scientists who have cured diseases are not billionaires.
But for example the founder of instacart is a billionare.
That should not be possible.
It means the system is beyond broken and it's being exploited.
Mackenzie, his ex-wife, owns 33B and has pledged to give hers away as well on The Giving Pledge.
The key thing is that over time, Microsoft transitioned to a point where Bill Gates wasn't running things day-to-day and investors became comfortable with him not having any control. At that point, him selling shares was no big deal.
At the other end of the extreme would be someone like Elon Musk, where Tesla's stock price is almost entirely dependent on him being at the helm. If he were to walk away now, the shares would tank in value.
Jeff Bezos is somewhere in between. Clearly, Amazon would run okay without him, but he still has some involvement. He certainly can't sell all of his shares, but if he sells over time and makes it clear (and credible) that he is selling in order to use his money elsewhere (rather than trying to time the market because he thinks the stock is overpriced), the share prices of Amazon should hold up just fine.
What the F is going on. Apparently this is in response to a lot of criticism towards Jeff on how he should spend his money? I mean, excuse me? He can spend his money any way he freaking wants IMHO.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Cu6EbELZ6I
It's all about avoiding taxes.
It's an 120 years old story.
can't wait for adam conover [adam ruins everything] to jump on this one.