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Comment by Msurrow | Hacker News Reader

The solution is right there in OPs post: “give them three months on the books to find somewhere else that don't count against their visa. It will give them a chance to get settled and go on interviews.”

Thats it. HR knows who is working on visa. Inform them of the situation, give them 3 months, take away all their accesses and let them spend the 3 months to look for a new job. Meta makes a bazillion USD pr year. Even if they had to pay 1000 workers on visa for 3 months it wont make a dent in their profits.

For the employee that just relocated, on the other hand, this makes all the difference in the world.

Corporate greed is disgusting when its put above Human decency like this.

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My company’s been through multiple rounds of large layoffs. This was standard SOP.

People on immigration visas were not given traditional severances. They were simply kept on the books for that period of time without having any access to any resources and/or being expected to do any work.

I’m not entirely sure what happened if they started a job before the period ended. Whether they got the rest of the money as severance or forfeited it but I doubt they really cared.

It's even simpler: make 3 months notice mandatory across the board. Or heck, even 30 days notice would be a start. Of course there's no way you can rely on a corporation to do this voluntarily and regulation is unlikely given who pays the bills.

I wish there was a way to make this happen but I keep hearing software workers don't need unions because we already make so much money and the better ones have nothing to worry about.

Well I’m from Denmark with 3 months required by law (if you’ve been employeed more than 6 months. 1 month if its <6 months.), so I completely agree. Sometimes it just usually distracts from the conversion if you mention danish basic rights to americans :-)

3 months notice, while retaining access to company networks and campus?

I support "keeping them on the books" for purposes of visa and health insurance, for example, but there are legitimate security reasons to have people cut off quickly when they've been laid off or fired.

I don't think anyone advocating the 3 months thinks you need to keep them doing something. You just need to keep providing the benefits (salary, health if in the US, visa, etc.) for 3 months. Even in the EU you don't have to let someone come in to the office during that time.

I suppose if you had really, really, really good meals provided, it would be reasonable to argue about whether that was a benefit or there for people in the office.

A company can give them 3 months "paid time off" while also revoking their access to tools/systems,.

I've never been in the situation, but from what I gather then both things happen. Sometimes your are given notice (and pay) but access revoked. But its also my understanding that in many cases, maybe even most, the employee works in the 3 months. The employer may even be a bit more lax with time off so the employee can do interviews with other companies. I know in most cases the notice period is used for handing over projects/work to another employee at the company, so stuff doesn't just get dropped. I get the security aspect, but from my experience its just not something an employee usually does. Maybe some other Danes can pitch in with their experiences.

I think its b/c getting fired is bad ofc, but not bad like in the US. I mean we have universal basic income, free healthcare etc. So I just don't think people feel pressured in a way that drives them to exploit access even after a notice, or get mad at the company in the same way. I'm just speculating. Again, there are companies and positions in companies where its a no brainer that access is revoked for security reasons.

Remaining vacation days should cover the better part of one month alone. If you don't want them to come in for whatever reason, you can send them on paid leave.

Most companies stop having "legitimate security reasons" when the alternative is to pay people for doing nothing. Turns out the fact that actual sabotage and theft of trade secrets is illegal (and often represents a breach of the employment contract, which can incur hefty fines) is a sufficient deterrent for most industries.

Isn't this literally what's happening? (Except it's 4 months, not 3?)

he's probably been given the pay but not the time to find his feet

The problem is not so much the money, but the damn Visa: The moment you become unemployed, the countdown clock to deportation starts ticking.

This is a HUGE stress, and also puts you at a disadvantage against your prospect employers.

IMHO, there should be legislation for covering these cases. I.e. when you sponsor a Visa as an employer, it should be mandatory to pay the employee for a minimum of 12-24 months. If you want to lay them off, that's fine, but legally they would still be considered employed and paid in full until that grace period expires.

This why it happens, the company I work with would rather hire someone who is in a tight bind if their employment goes away, they'll work harder, be scared to lose it. etc. its called the H1B solution

Depending on the type of visa, it's not even like the situation depends on employment. I've seen a few people with stable jobs sent home from the US when their visa came up for renewal. Immigrating to the west, the USA in particular but also Canada, involves an element of luck, beyond what most people realize.

edit: To be very fair, though, there is an implicit warning in the paperwork and interview for every US work visa for exactly this kind of situation. It's not like they're playing some gotcha game. They don't come right out and say it, but, it's also not exactly hidden between the lines or in small print.

From my understanding the way layoffs were handled at meta for most ppl on visas the 60 day count down was not triggered until 2 months into severance

> The moment you become unemployed, the countdown clock to deportation starts ticking.

I am NOT 100% sure about this, but to the best of my knowledge, this is not the case in Canada. Work Permits are issues for the duration of the expected work and are usually at least one year long. If you lose your job, you can still remain in Canada until the expiry date of your work permit. You cannot simply start working elsewhere, but if you find a new job, your new employer can start the process of applying for a work permit for you while you are waiting in Canada. So this developer should be good to stay for another 11 to 12 months, if not even longer, while searching for a new job.

Yeah, I’m almost certain the articles I read about the layoffs said that those on a Visa are getting an extra 90 days or so on payroll to find other employment. Maybe I’m mixing it up with Twitter?

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