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Comment by jbverschoor | Hacker News Reader

So he gets 4 months of pay, his signing bonus, and all if his shares vest immediately.

I wouldn't be so certain that his contract is as good as contract of US citizen working for Meta. Whole point of hiring and relocating people from abroad is that they have much weaker negotiation position so they usually being paid much less.

It remains to be seen whether relocating someone will still be a thing as much as it is now. I mean, we have remote tools and most big companies have branches everywhere in the world. Why bother with visas, lawyers and tragic cases like this. Sure for people who want to become a citizen somewhere in the West its great. For the companies I'm not that sure its better than the alternatives.

Relocation to US / Canada is usually primary reason why people look for offers like that. No amount of remote tools an offices abroad will ever replace option to move countries.

I am immigrant myself who want to get to EU / US at some point so I can understand reasons of other people really well.

You're saying there aren't enough good Indian engineers who will agree to work for Meta from India? I highly doubt that's accurate.

I'm not from India so no idea how many good engineers are there. I am immigrant myself though and I have a lot of friends who changed countries so have some insight there.

People who decide to move countries usually not just do it for reasons like career or more money. Most often it's because they dislike something in their home country or want better opportunities for their children.

So no amount of shiny remote work tools or good local offices will make any difference for people who look for relocation. They'll just choose to work for company that does offer relocation.

Have you been to India? I genuinely love the place but if you want to live and work somewhere then (in general) you're not going to choose a country with poor infrastructure over places like the US or most of Europe unless you're feeling adventurous or have some specific reason to. So it's not a case of not being willing to work remotely but preferring to move.

> you're not going to choose a country with poor infrastructure over places like the US or most of Europe unless you're feeling adventurous or have some specific reason to

Being FROM India is a good reason to work in India. Do you think uprooting your life is a piece of cake? What if you have old parents? What if you prefer your own culture and not being an immigrant for the rest of your life?

Also, you're overlooking how much a good software engineer makes in India (adjusted for cost of living). It's probably somewhere in the top 1% of Indian earners. That's living in a mansion with servants kinda rich. In Canada a software engineer, even working for Meta, is still middle to upper middle class. Some of them probably can't afford a home without taking a huge debt. They will live comfortably but won't be rich in relative terms.

> Do you think uprooting your life is a piece of cake?

I'm an immigrant in a non-English speaking country, I'm well aware of how difficult it is to uproot, and I can tell you that what I'm doing (on the surface) is much harder than going from India to North America.

> That's living in a mansion with servants kinda rich.

That doesn't counter the problems with the infrastructure. If you stay in your mansion then I'm sure it's great but go outside…

Funnily enough, I used to wonder if I could set myself up in India with a VOIP number with a London area code, so I've considered it. But now I'm older and wiser and I'd choose Canada too (just).

You can probably still go to Canada if you wanted to! Their generous immigration policy is only getting more generous. Anyway best of luck! From a fellow (ex) immigrant.

This really isn’t true at Meta or other top companies. They hire people from abroad simply because the USA is only 5% of the world and they don’t want to miss out on 95% of the talent.

I worked at Meta and we had thoroughly reverse-engineered compensation formulas in internal discussion groups. Whether you were a citizen or on a visa made zero difference.

One person I know in Seattle worked for 2 months before layoff day and didn't get severance package. Probably 90 days is minimum working time.

He moved to Canada, not the USA.

I know of people still in bootcamp that got the same severance package as everyone else. There was no minimum working time.

The bigger issue is that he is likely now without a work visa and has to scramble to avoid deportation.

I dont think that's true in canada. IANAL but i was under the impression that if you are fired you are still allowed to stay until your work permit expires. Its only usa that has the problem you describe.

> Its only usa that has the problem you describe.

The grace period can vary wildly by country and, often, by the type of visa or work permit you hold. Just in my own sphere of experience, for example:

- Hong Kong GEP holders can stay for the length of their original permit, while people on domestic help visas get only 14 days

- EU Blue Card and Japanese work visa holders get 90 days

- US H-1B holders get 60 days

- Singaporean EP and Chinese Z-visa holders get 30 days

Of course there are ways to extend all of these (and some are much easier than others) but you can't legally work unless and until you find a new sponsor.

> Japanese work visa holders get 90 days

In basis. If you can still support yourself and you are still looking for a job Japan has no issues extending this.

In Canada, one can stay until it expires but they aren't allowed to work for anyone else in that time. (some will let you look for work for varying times)

It isn't the same doom, but doom nonetheless.

Canada, so IANAB

Its canada not britian.

I’m not knowledgeable about Canadian work visas specifically, but many countries extend them only within the context of specific employment. In other words, he may need to take what he can get, in a rough economy, under immense stress (as someone who has lived in that situation before can attest to), lest he have to go all the way back.

If he wanted to live and work in Canada, wouldn't applying for jobs in Canada be easier than applying while living in India?

As much as I dislike FB as a company, I'm not sure he is worse off?

Catch-22. You often can't legally search for a job as a tourist. Typically, like the US H1-B, a sponsoring company needs to "prove" that they tried and failed to source the employee onshore first, and therefore immigration is the interest of the domestic company.

I'm separated from my family right now -- wife and kids -- while waiting on an immigration process that has taken far longer than we were expecting. I assure you that any immigration-related worry can seem outsized.

> and all if his shares vest immediately

I don't think so. I believe they only get the November 15, 2022 vesting.

which if there's a 1 year cliff, means he didn't have a vesting date then....

A (vesting) cliff doesn't mean you have to wait 1 year for the vesting, it means that your vesting significantly reduces after 1 year.

I don't know how you've seen it, but I've seen it mean exactly that. A one-year cliff means that your whole year (usually your first) vests at once, in one day.

No, that’s not what a cliff is. https://www.investopedia.com/terms/c/cliffvesting.asp

What you’re talking about is front-loading or ballooning vesting schedules.

Meta does not do cliffs.

ok, didn't know that, though would he still have had a vest date then?

ex. lets say meta vests one per month on the 15th, and he starts on the 14th, would he normally have vested right away, or would he have had to wait to Dec 15th? (and can apply to whatever schedule you want, just picked a monthly one for example sake).

I don't know enough about Meta to answer that.

I think you're right

I can't see the article to mention if he gets this package, remembering a few situations from my life I'd expect him not to get any package since he only worked for 2 days..

not true, everyone affected gets the package whether they joined 2 days ago or 2 years ago.

I don't know that, I don't work for Meta. Would be nice if you can share source to back your claim, if Meta is paying whole package to somebody who only worked for 2 days then that would be entirely different story for that guy.

You can skimp on the extras, but you cannot skimp on the basics. It’s their fault for hiring him after all. Not his fault for coming to the US and trusting them.

I agree, even if he gets the same benefits, he is still left in very bad place.

Canada is not the US

Yes. Hence why I expect him to get at least the basics of the deal. Obviously he’s not getting any extra money for years worked.

Sounds like a good deal. And plenty of time to find a new position if he wants to stay in Canada.

It's still not worth it.

I'm not sure what Amazon was paying him in India as a SDE-2, but the range is somewhere between $35k and $50k

So he probably got around 1.5 years of his previous yearly comp.

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