The rabbit hole of adding grain to digital photos
vmoldo.com
vmoldo.com
There are image-software companies whose specialties include careful emulation of grain. I don't use them, but plugins like https://nikcollection.dxo.com/silver-efex-pro/ are intended for that very purpose.
But the main reason records usually sound better is simply dynamic range.
I'm a huge fan of 80s club music (Paradise Garage type stuff). I've spent a lot of time and money over the years ripping those original records, because unfortunately the digital releases of a lot of those songs were brickwall limited, which ruins the dynamics and punchiness of the drums and other elements of the music. I'm sure the same applies to other genres.
On the other hand, 80s club music was presumably mixed and mastered with vinyl-style distortion (and other features such as rumble, crackle, hiss, etc.) in mind. (Modern producers often try to replicate the pleasant saturation of analog equipment – and sometimes add vinyl-sounding artifacts, for better or for worse.)
A well-mastered digital recording should (and does!) sound great, but I think the problem is that many CDs aren't well mastered and many were overly compressed, sometimes with terrible clipping, in service of the dreadful "loudness wars."
In 2022 most dance music is produced digitally to begin with, and DJed digitally as well; presumably mastering engineers and DJs have figured out how to make it sound good when it's played in a club.
I wish replay gain was standarized to a level where every player could just add few DBs in analog way for those songs that use more of the dynamic range, instead of mastering engineers having to choose between "loud" and "correct"
Anecdotally, I went on a trip with some friends recently and everyone took their phones while one person took a manual camera. Everyone uploaded to a shared album at the end, and the pictures which paint the picture of the weekend to me are the ones shot by the amateur which are often a bit out of focus compared to the hyper accurate self-stabilizing self-focusing technology.
Perhaps it’s the romantic in all of us.
That implies the opposite of what you enjoy. The original experience had no grain, had no hiss. It was pure and clear.
I mean a recording with a larger dynamic range is an objectively better recording. You can always crank up the volume if you want the loudest part to actually be loud.
That’s the paradoxical situation. You have an inferior medium with a better mastering.
Where have you found the explanation? Is it something you have inferred yourself or has it been studied?
So my current theory is that photo/cinema enthusiasts are overly exposed to this visual look, since they get inspired by masters of the past, and the sample of acclaimed photo/cinema artists have to be still larger on the film media. And, direction, post production and stakeholders in Hollywood would also have this bias and welcome like to continue producing material with this looks.
https://ymcinema.com/2021/12/03/dune-was-shot-on-alexa-lf-tr...
For example, Kodak make 'traditional' and 'T-grain' versions of their B&W film (I believe the 'T-grain' style has the grains stacked vertically rather than horizontally, allowing for more light sensitivity but smaller visible grain). So, if you want ISO 400 B&W film, Kodak will sell you TriX for traditional grain, and Tmax for modern 'T-grain'.
The article discusses grain visibility in shadows vs mid tone and highlignts, and suggests that grain is visible across the entire image. This isn't true. The process of exposing film converts silver halide to silver granules where the light has been captured, so in shadows, the grain is purely silver halide which is removed by the fix step when developing the film, leaving only the film base. So, unexposed film (shadows) have no grain, highlights have all the grain. This is the opposite of digital, where if anything, noise is most visible in the shadows, whilst on film, shadows are pure black with no noise (from grain).
Another thing, different printing processes cause the grain to be more or less visible. Traditional enlargers use collimated light which produces very sharp images, but accentuates dust and film grain. This fell out of favour to be replaced with diffuse light, which drops the sharpness a little, but is much more forgiving.
> Noise, by nature, is digital so it is all square-shaped, like a pixel, and it’s uniform in nature because pixels are just a grid of little, tiny squares. So when you look very closely you can easily tell that noise and grain are two very different things with grain achieving actual randomness of size and positioning while noise is just a table of black, white, and grey squares.
edit: And calling film grain "organic" is a bit of a stretch, it's silver halide crystals.
one example: A. Newsom: Realistic Film Grain Rendering https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/b791/566b0a38cc0269b1b7f9ad...
The point was that many editing tools offer noise generation that works at a pixel level. The author was explaining why those are unsuitable for the task. That doesn't make it nonsense.
The Wikipedia article for gradient noise[1] says:
> Gradient noise is a type of noise commonly used as a > procedural texture primitive in computer graphics.
Having them represented as a circle or diamond wont change the point they were making.
On a ‘retina’ class display these square areas are explicitly smaller than the resolution distinguishable by your eyes.
Any sharp edges or corners you think you can discern are your mind reconstructing an edge from a series of neural samples on your retina that are the sum of the output of various sub pixel blobs of red green and blue light that focus on that particular cluster of cone cells.
That is what we call a pixel: the smallest representation of a point of full color.
But, none of this matters for the point they were making.
A voronoi based vector codec could probably be close enough that people would struggle to tell the difference from film.
I thought it was super obvious they didn’t mean organic in the chemical sense.
And yes, ImageMagick can be a rabbit hole of possibilities too. But now I'm tempted to try it … tomorrow.
I just paste my signature into the PDF then use ImageMagick to add grain and slightly rotate the pages so that it looks printed and scanned. Works every time.
Occasionally I'll get someone complaining about some vague thing they can't quite articulate (something about it not being a "real signature" or not having been "really filled out"), but when I just insist that "yes that's my real signature" and "what I sent you is the filled form" they always end up accepting it.
Usually it's just some clerk or administrator and they have no basis for refusing the document. I just tell them to pass it along and process it, they always end up doing so, and I never have any issues.
I’m really not sure under what basis one would make that determination. Signatures are mainly symbolic and provide nearly zero guarantees. Sure there’s some extra security you can build around signatures (eg.: docusign), but paper doesn’t really have all of that extra stuff.
I bought an X-T2 this morning :-)
Since they're interchangeable, can I swap it with your XPro3?
Speaking of grain. The Fujifilm sensor actually adds quite pleasant grain at higher ISO. So I sometime shoot with deliberate high ISO because I like the look that comes out of it.
I am a little jealous on your X-Pro3. The X-Pro3 is high on my wishlist :)
I almost always add a subtle amount of "grain" with LR when developing photos. It looks pleasant and seems to add a sense of coherency to an image. I find that in many cases where details are lost to aggressive NR or otherwise simply not present, grain can make it easier to "see" the missing detail... as with most things, the optimal amount of noise is not zero.
Of course that results in digital noise, which is not visually equivalent but is an artifact of your actual medium.
If you don't like the digital look, you can still use this method, but develop the image twice, one timein monochrome with contrast and brightness in mind.. Then another photo with color and saturation in mind..
Then you cheat and do a Gaussian blur on the color photo that is strong enough that the digital noise diminishes to an acceptable level.. then you overlay the blurred color image on top of the sharp black/white image with saturation from the color image being used.
This is a hack, and can also be used if you shot some color picture in adverse conditions and want both colors and sharpness.
But now I'm afraid I sound like an audiophile who buys wooden amp knobs for performance.
..the cheap, and therefore indecorous, articles of daily consumption in modern industrial communities are commonly machine products; and the generic feature of the physiognomy of machine-made goods as compared with the hand-wrought article is their greater perfection in workmanship and greater accuracy in the detail execution of the design. Hence it comes about that the visible imperfections of the hand-wrought goods, being honorific, are accounted marks of superiority in point of beauty, or serviceability, or both. Hence has arisen that exaltation of the defective, of which John Ruskin and William Morris were such eager spokesmen in their time; and on this ground their propaganda of crudity and wasted effort has been taken up and carried forward since their time. And hence also the propaganda for a return to handicraft and household industry. So much of the work and speculations of this group of men as fairly comes under the characterisation here given would have been impossible at a time when the visibly more perfect goods were not the cheaper.
However YT compression is strong enemy of grain.
Turns out they all have their uses. Why not give artists a more broad palette to work from? There's a place for documentary reproduction, and there's room for creative experimentation. When you get back to the basic idea, it's all goofy. With sound, you're, what, vibrating a diaphragm to create an electrical signal that passes through dozens, if not hundreds of components in a preamplifier, before it even gets to a tape machine, or a modern audio interface. And then playing it back pushes it all through more components in order to charge up a magnet and vibrate some plastic. What really is the most 'authentic' way to capturing an image to a medium?
Glad we've got choices. Mostly glad I don't have to pay to develop film anymore.
I first learned about this in vision, but it's generally true. https://www.electronicsweekly.com/news/research-news/add-noi...
My best guess is that besides grain digital photos have a different dynamic range. The whole stack from silicon sensor, raw processing, etc, including screen manufacturing is trying to get to "real" images, in the sense that it is similar to what the human eye of the photographer saw in site. Film also tried to do the same, yet, I guess there are more characteristics than we can simulate with math.
I bet if someone gathers enough data an AI based plugin might get closer to the actual film look rather hand-coded math based plugins will be able to.
They don't blur like a gaussian filter, they have two separate plates, one that spreads light horizontally and the other vertically, ideally by about 1.0 pixel radius in each direction. This results in "square-like" artifacts, especially if the filters spread by more than 1.5 pixels.
The artifacts are most noticeable in astronomy where there is a dramatic difference between the appearance of star fields with and without anti-aliasing filters.
I don't know how this effect works against film simulation but it probably doesn't help. If they are going to start with Gaussian blur anyway, then using a camera with the antis-aliasing filters removed might help.
If someone is just getting into the hobby they're probably using a relatively low focal length scope or lens with a DSLR they have laying around. What that means is a wide field shot with lots of tiny stars. Many of those stars might only fit within a single pixel unless they were very bright.
In that specific scenario an aa filter has the advantage of providing more natural star colors, as the light that otherwise might only have hit a red or blue pixel in the bayer matrix is instead spread out into the other colors.
It's less of a beginner thing to do, but if your shots are extremely under-sampled like that, dithering your subframes and using drizzle integration in post helps a lot with blocky (OSC + Mono) and off-color (OSC only) stars. That is, assuming you're trying to stack exposures instead of it being a once off shot.
I haven't followed the digital camera market in detail anymore in +/- the last decade anymore, so I don't know what's going in regarding AA filters. I just kinda assumed other models would also drop AA filters.
For computers and Lightroom/Photoshop you have stuff like Replichrone to help.
But even then, I would only add grain via some filter that has a "grain" parameter built in. I suspect adding just grain without other effects to go with it would not be an improvement in general.
10 PRINT "Is your name Stanley Kubrick? (Y/N)"
20 A$=GET$();
30 IF A$ <> "Y" THEN PRINT "Don't do that"VFX pipelines have dealt with actual film grain for a very long time (for about as long as there has been telecine/scanning) - and dealing with moving image grain-wise gives more perspective than doing that on stills. A few interesting items to consider if you ever want to dive into that domain:
* There is a difference whether you want to "add film look" or you need to integrate digital images into an existing scanned film image. The latter is harder because "your" grain has to match "their" grain!
* Grain in film is different to digital noise not because the digital noise is pixel based, but because the digital noise is a property of the sensor. Therefore digital noise will produce clusters of pixels or single pixels which run "hotter" or "colder" on every image shot. Some cameras are much worse with this (noise patterns are extremely regular between frames), some are better. Film grain are physical particles spread on a medium, which gives them a great property of incredibly high entropy
* Consequently, when you want to increase detail you often can do "temporal averaging" - take multiple frames of the same subject under same conditions and average the signal across them. This removes virtually 100% of the film grain and allows you to produce a good "grain plate" which can then be re-added to your source material or digital material. Doing the same with digital noise of the sensor won't work so well, because (see above) a sensor inherently has some noisier elements than the rest, and they stay in the same position. Some digital cameras tried to innovate in this space by moving the sensor laterally during shooting, exactly so that you can later do temporal averaging to de-noise (unlike blurring temporal denoising is theoretically losless). And yes - temporal denoisingby averaging is also way better than the modern ML-based denoising (and cheaper computationally).
* Grain - as well as digital noise - have varying response per color channel, as well as varying sizes. For grain this is because of the different dyes used to capture different parts of the spectrum, as well as due to "demasking" of the negative. The channel split depends on the film stock / type of sensor, how far the exposure is pushed - but also on the color management pipeline applied throughout the process. Sometimes your response per channel is actually "roughly" YUV instead of roughly RGB
* Noise and grain will be affected by chroma subsampling - your "color" channels having less resolution than luminance channels. If you are working on material which has already been heavily compressed (like smartphone photos, lol) you need to take that into account
* This might seem unimportant, but the _size_ of the grain is a great hint to the brain that "this was shot on mid-format" vs. "this was shot on 8mm" vs. "this was shot on 35mm". For proper artistic effect it is always a good idea to take this into account.
There has been a lot of work done in the VFX world to provide for at least some "recorded" or analyzed grain sampling at least for widely used moving picture film stocks.
Oh, and last but not least - you can throw rotten eggs at me, but "film look" is overrated, just as "no photoshop used" is overrated. I'll see myself out :-D
Even though I do shoot some film myself, I fully support your statements about "film look" and "no photoshop". It is arguing to a non-existing ideal of "pure photography" as being not edited in any way. The entire point of photography is a representation of a point in time. It is interpreted by your eyes, your lens, your camera, your film or digital sensor, the development process, the scan, your monitor etc. etc. etc.
So edit away and make the images you like. Whether they are a result of 10 hours of photoshop or miliseconds of exposure is not important.