Information for foreign citizens in Longyearbyen [pdf] | Hacker News Reader

Information for foreign citizens in Longyearbyen [pdf]

sysselmesteren.no

122 pointssaturn5k89 comments

Svalbard – where the sun don’t shine (for 5 months) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33577717 - Nov 2022 (1 comment)

Svalbard, the Norwegian archipelago that anyone can call home - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29865861 - Jan 2022 (5 comments)

Bearing Witness to Svalbard’s Fragile Splendor - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29463405 - Dec 2021 (3 comments)

Editor of world's northernmost English-language newspaper expelled from Svalbard - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28154838 - Aug 2021 (1 comment)

Svalbard's Alcohol Quotas - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26670465 - April 2021 (158 comments)

Svalbard is as close as you can get to a place with open borders - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20642156 - Aug 2019 (253 comments)

Running the Arctic’s Alt-Weekly Newspaper - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20626734 - Aug 2019 (5 comments)

Pretty sure there are other threads - anyone? (I left out the ones about the seed vault and other topics that mention Svalbard but aren't related to residency)

Related: Newcomer's Welcome Package: Thule Air Base, Greenland - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30408226

Article from Cambridge University journal "Polar Record" [0] (I came across this while looking up the film "The Age of Stupid" [1], which IIRC had the Svalbard Seed Bank as more-or-less the last place standing after severe climate change).

"The trouble with local community in Longyearbyen, Svalbard: How big politics and lack of fellesskap hinder a not-yet-decided future"

[0] https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/polar-record/article...

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Age_of_Stupid

One thing I didn't see in here that is absolutely relevant to life (but perhaps considered a foregone conclusion by the Norwegian government) is the concept of midnight sun and polar night, where the sun is periodically either above or below the horizon for 24 hours a day for months on end. It's a real mind-bender and can be very tough on the spirit in the winter. Quoting the 'time in Svalbard' Wikipedia article:

> As Svalbard is located north of the Arctic Circle, it experiences midnight sun during summer and polar night during winter. At the 74° parallel north, the midnight sun lasts 99 days and polar night 84 days, while the respective figures at the 81° parallel north are 141 and 128 days.[11] In Longyearbyen, midnight sun lasts from 20 April until 23 August, and polar night lasts from 26 October until 15 February.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_in_Svalbard#Geography_and...

If you desire to experience such polar wackiness in a less isolated location, one place I can definitely recommend is the mainland Norwegian city of Tromsø.

> If you desire to experience such polar wackiness in a less isolated location, one place I can definitely recommend is the mainland Norwegian city of Tromsø.

Tromsø is great! I went there on vacation when I aspired to go to Svalbard and then discovered that that's rather difficult and expensive. So I went to Tromsø instead.

Tromsø is definitely thoroughly Arctic and life as a tourist there is still reasonably convenient and enjoyable. You can also take a ferry along the coast in either direction (either a short-distance commuter-oriented boat or a long-distance tourist-oriented cruise ferry). There's quite a bit to do in the vicinity!

> It is cold in Svalbard. The average temperature in summer is 5 degrees Celsius. During winter, the temperature can drop below minus 30 degrees Celsius. The polar night lasts from October to February.

Ah, so it is in there, I missed it. (I'm not cut out for life in Svalbard, for this and many other reasons) I love how condensed that statement is.

As someone who has pulled the night shift for a couple years, I could handle it no probs; black out curtains, a white noise box fan, a regular sleep schedule, and soft music are all you need. Just to get to live in a Scandanavian country, i could deal with it. Unfortunately, I'm not rich enough to buy my way in :) .

People always talk about the winters, but the thing that really messes with you is the summers, if you're light-sensitive then that's a really long period of not getting any proper sleep.

I'm light-sensitive but for me the problem of sleep can be remedied adequately with technology. Aluminum foil is one easy way to make a room extremely light-proof, and from there one just has to simulate the sunrise/sunset with lighting, for which there's a bunch of consumer electronics available these days that are good enough to trick my brain into sleeping correctly. Supplemental melatonin helps me to get back on schedule if I mess up, or switch schedules.

By contrast, in my experience artificial lighting in the polar night helps but just can not warm my soul enough to dispel the oppressive dark mood of winter.

Wouldn’t sleeping masks help? I love those (also earplugs and weighted blankets), but I’m not actually that light sensitive.

You don't put those on until you're actually in bed trying to sleep. It still messes with you that it doesn't get dark when it's late and bedtime is approaching.

That makes sense, thank you.

I'm happy that it works for you, but I've never been able to sleep at all with that kind of pressure against my face.

Have you tried those with space for the eyes? They should lessen the pressure. But personally, I enjoy it.

My eyes are fairly recessed already, the problem is more about the overall pressure on the face, which is a pretty inherent problem to that approach.

This is why virtually all Nordic households have blackout curtains.

That depends a lot. I live in Oslo now, and have lived in Trondheim and Finnmark near Kirkenes before.

Never used blackout curtains in Oslo or Trondheim, absolutely needed them in Finnmark. I wouldn't say that blackout curtains are the norm in the Nordic countries, especially not Denmark.

But if you're in a place where there's midnight sun, I suggest getting some.

Blackout curtains are easily available in Denmark, and I have some, but I don't think that's common.

I lived in Norrbotten for 10 years. Blackout curtains help, but it's not the same thing.

In Spain every house comes with 'Persian blinds' (https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persiana) installed. They completely block the passage of light and are a perfectly adequate solution to this problem. It's a mystery to me why no other country in Europe seems to know or care. So much so that there's no English version of the above Wikipedia page.

In Greece we have exterior shutters (as seen here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Window_shutter). They fit an outside frame, and modern ones don't let any light at all in (not even light bleed in the edges). The room is just always completely dark.

I'm similarly puzzled as to why many other countries don't seem to have these. I've never managed to sleep as well elsewhere.

In Germany every house, except maybe very old ones under historical preservation, has these too. Most often these are centimeter thick plasticky ones on the outside. They are thick and strong enough not only to block out all light but also protect the window glass from hail.

In English they are commonly called "venetian blinds". In northern Europe they are often installed between the panes in the triple glazing.

Different things: https://budgetblinds.com/puyallup/community-connection/blog/...

My current apartment has them. They're far less effective than the worst-installed blackout curtains. When pulled down fully they block maybe.. half the light?

Blackout curtains themselves do a good job, but have a lot of side bleed. Blinds even out the problem by.. also adding side bleed between each of the sheets.

If you have "side bleed" between sheets we are not talking of the same thing. Really.

Same in Portugal

I get how these blinds (or the shutters stavros talks about in a sibling comment) would initially be more popular in Southern countries, but one would think that places with 6 months of always-on daylight would catch up eventually.

I never saw such in Finland growing up. Thick roll-up shade, sure, but the edges would leak light. I'd say most Finns at least learn to sleep with light in the room.

Which is a bit surprising cause they let plenty of light in. Roller shutters work much better for this purpose.

> The use of all violence is prohibited in Norway. You are not allowed to abuse children or use any other kind of corporeal punishment when bringing up children. Severe penalties may be applied to anyone who has physically abused a child.

Never saw that before. This should be standard everywhere.

It is standard in a lot of places: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d8/Ma...

I can't vouch for how seriously those different countries look at the issue, though, despite what they have legislated, e.g. I once had a relationship with a Korean who had been physically abused by both parents and teachers. Here in Denmark it was outlawed in the 90s and isn't very common.

There is probably a reason they put that in (as in: they had an incident where this apparently wasn't standard...)

Pretty sure it’s the law everywhere

No, it surely isn't.

In the US, it is generally legal to spank a child. Or do things like make them do physical labour or write the same sentence 100 times, knowing it makes hands cramp. The elementary and middle schools I went to technically could spank you with a paddle too. I'm only 44. I know similar things happen in other countries: Another commenter has a link with a map.

I live in Norway now. If you spank your child, even if it obviously doesn't hurt them, you can get child services visiting your home.

All violence sounds pretty extreme to me by most standards. For instance, boxing would be illegal, and toddlers would be in jail if seen hitting their parents/siblings. In practice I imagine it means something like "no violence from someone larger to someone smaller."

Most places no one really gives a shit if it goes the other way around, like young kid hitting parent or wife hitting husband.

Professional boxing was illegal between 1969 and 2007 in Sweden.

https://www.spitsbergen-svalbard.com/2021/04/20/victims-of-d...

This is an incredibly deceptive article. It makes it sound like DV victims are singled out. All it says is DV victims have to follow the same rule as other immigrants on Svalbard -- i.e. they may be deported when they can't support themselves.

But it goes to the original point "It's so great that violence is illegal there, it should be everywhere."

It is. But just because it's illegal doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

Things being forbidden does not necessarily mean that jail time is the response.

Many societies (and oh how I want to write “most civilized societies”, so I do) also apply different standards to kids than to adults.

> Many societies (and oh how I want to write “most civilized societies”, so I do)

There’s no point in doing this. No one feels like you’re withholding judgment, or that you are (not) an enemy to their values. Either go with “most civilised societies” or don’t. Don’t be extra petty.

The notion of being covered by the social insurance system for only four weeks after unemployment is quite fascinating. I guess it's a compromise between having to completely exempt Svalbard from Norway's social insurance system (and thus having to find some replacement for it) and completely including it (and thus having to raise taxes).

This might seem almost libertarian in design, but it's important to remember that Svalbard is not meant to be a self-sufficient place where people can live their entire lives. You literally are not allowed to die there, and I assume the solution to unemployment is to simply return where you came from. No normal place has this luxury.

> You literally are not allowed to die there

Tell that the polar bears

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Svalbard_polar_bear_att...

Basically the same info in a more digestible format: https://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Svalbard

I find the ex-Soviet colonies particularly fascinating. One, Barentsburg, is still operating, and living there as a coal miner sounds absolutely hellish. Soviet era tech and safety standards, extreme climate, nearly entirely male population, living off cabbage and canned food -- it's like the gulag, only at least you get paid for it.

> The Barentsburg Pomor Museum presents Pomor culture, Arctic flora and fauna, and archaeological objects preserved in the permafrost.

Wow, this is hardcore. Wikipedia says that Russian Pomors reached there around the same time vikings did. (Pomors are Russians who historically lived far North.)

Amazingly, streetview is available for Longyearbyen in Google Maps. You can see from the silhouette that it was done by a guy on a bicycle with some sort of backpack mounted camera -- the results look just as good as regular Google streetview. I assume it was some sort of volunteer effort rather than a Google employee or contractor.

EDIT: It looks like it's a German company that's doing it: https://www.mapyourtown.com/

They don't skimp on raising children even up in Svalbard. Clubs for kids and pool open every day and strict anti-abuse laws were what popped out to me as I read it.

As well as being a stunningly surreal environment, there’s a really, really good whisky bar there too: https://www.karlsbergerpub.no/. The walk there in -30C is worth it.

Knowing Norway, the price of a drink is?

One other thing about Svalbard : no VAT or excise duty!

Interesting – I was just looking into visiting/living in Svalbard for a couple of months for the unique experience of it. Unfortunately, I could only find one apartment building [1] and the price for an apartment was $6,000 USD.

I've read that most of the apartments are owned by companies, and you have to work for the company to have access to the apartment. Does anyone know of any other alternatives for a short stay there?

[1] https://en.visitsvalbard.com/where-to-stay/svalbard-hotell-l...

Have you looked up hotels/hostels e.g. on Booking.com? Last time I checked this fall there were enough reasonably priced options.

As an aside, IME the expectation that you can show up and rent an actual apartment for a month or two is just not met (locals don't like that and/or law explicitly forbids) in many places around the world, not just Svalbard. Being able to do it for $6000 or at all is seems fair. In Seoul, for example, you'd need to have substantially more than $6000, possibly two or three times that will be required as a deposit even if you are able to find someone who rents you, a tourist, an actual flat in a residential building for two months (which I doubt; note that on Airbnb most rentals listed as "flats" mean you get a private room with shared space).

We stayed at the Radisson blue and it was pretty terrific, could walk to the main drag, etc... I mean , it was -35, but it was great.

Didn't know there was a Radisson there, and considering the location not crazy expensive either. When researching a possible trip I saw more budget-friendly hotels for longer stay too.

So an isolated, remote, thinly populated location like Longyearbyen with almost zero tourism doesn't have many short-term apartment rentals. Fine, that makes sense. But what's the story with Seoul? It's among the densest and most connected cities in the world with plenty of tourism and business visitors. Why is finding a real short-term apartment so difficult? Can you explain more about the legal or cultural problem there?

This has less to do with population density or prevalence of tourism and more with high-trust culture, tight communities, desire for predictable and safe immediate surroundings for one and one's family, fear of disruption or damage to property, disinclination to let vacationing strangers with unknown behavior and no responsibility or investment into well-being of the community live in your house (and next door to your neighbors, with whom you would presumably want to maintain good relations). Seoul is not in any way special here nor there is any "problem" to speak of--the situation strikes me as natural and how I would prefer it where I live, what about you?

No, the situation in Seoul is not “natural.” It’s not about tight communities or tourism, because those very high costs apply to Koreans renting long-term as well. Renting an apartment can cost tens of thousands of dollars in up-front deposits, and getting a mortgage (actually just a loan) to buy a house/apartment requires putting up a large asset that you already own as collateral.

In practice, both of those things mean that your parents need to be well off and willing to put tens of thousands of dollars and/or their house up as collateral for you to be able to find a place to live. It’s an insanely broken system that encourages economic stratification and keeps the vast majority of the population from ever hoping to own or even rent in the city.

I suppose even if you are a Korean and/or willing to sign a multi-year contract, owner's ability to have recourse is limited if you decide to break it early and vanish without a trace so high deposits are a more reliable measure to reduce the amount of incidental people.

Whether this has to do with high-trust society or just greed is another question, I like to think it's more of the former but it could be both...

I can't comment on current availability, but when I visited ~4 years ago I stayed in someone's apartment that was listed on AirBnB.

I am living and working in Longyearbyen, and have an apartment through work. It stands unused for 4 weeks when I am away on summer vacation. Send me a mesage if you are interested in renting

>I've read that most of the apartments are owned by companies, and you have to work for the company to have access to the apartment.

Did you read that in the linked PDF, which says it on the first page?

>Almost all the accommodation is owned by employers. In most cases, you must have a job in order to get accommodation.

For those interested in experiencing Svalbard quite thoroughly in the summer, I'll vouch for this [1] expedition. It will probably remain one of the highlights of my life (though we ended up monitoring a polar bear via binoculars for ~24h to make sure it doesn't come our way...)

[1] https://www.wildlife.no/activities/summer-activities/wildern...

When I was there in the winter, the locals still brought their children to kindergarten by bicycle with -30C! So much for weather as an excuse not to cycle!

The tell folks, "There isn't bad weather, only bad clothes" - in no small part because folks walk in the winter as well. I had winter in Indiana, but I had to change the way I dealt with it when I moved to Norway.

And those bikes probably have studs in the tires, but admittedly, those folks riding are braver than I am.

The show Fortitude is basically set in Svalbard. Technically, the island is called Fortitude but basically just for artistic freedom; it's basically Svalbard. Even though the show is fiction I learned from it that you're essentially required to carry firearms whenever you leave town so that you don't get eaten by polar bears.

IIRC the legal requirement is to carry an "anti-polar bear device". Rifles are the most common but flare guns are also allowed since they can scare the bears off.

“Due to the polar bear threat on Svalbard, anyone travelling outside the settlements must be equipped with suitable means of scaring off polar bears. The office of the Governor of Svalbard also recommends carrying firearms with you.”

https://www.sysselmesteren.no/en/weapon/

Hah! I was just there. It’s very fascinating, I found where GitHubs Arctic Code Vault is, and saw the Soviet mines!

https://twitter.com/elamje/status/1575524944506605573?s=20&t...

And the Svalbard Seed bank [0] - arguably more important than a github backup :)

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svalbard_Global_Seed_Vault

I find these extreme enviroments fascinating, in this case polar days and nights (months long each). May I introduce you to Cecilia Blomdahl [1] who documents her life on Svalbard.

[1]: https://www.tiktok.com/@sejsejlija?lang=en

Same person, but on YouTube for those staying away from Tiktok

https://youtube.com/c/CeciliaBlomdahl

Thanks for posting this, hadn't heard about the channel before. Always wanted to experience life above the artic circle, but watching these videos will do instead.

Just adding another recommendation for those at all interested to check out the above YouTube channel. You can choose a video at random, they're not very serial, but they are fascinating if you're interested remote places.

What's the typical cloud coverage in Svalbard? Is it typically cloudy? I've always been interested in the polar night strictly from an astronomy viewing perspective. Does the convenience of 24 hour night sky become moot from near constant cloud cover?

Haven't been to Svalbard but sadly my experience on the mainland in Norway and other nearby places with polar night is that cloud cover is near constant. Perhaps 75% of the time. But, the sky is jaw dropping the rest of the time.

The observatory there has some sky-pointed cameras to check for the aurora borealis etc. When I was there in January there was quite a lot of clear sky.

http://kho.unis.no

https://virmalised.ee/aurora-live-cameras/#svalbard

What constitutes "quite a lot" in your terms?

Long winter-night and extreme cold accounted for, I bet that living there is far more enjoyable than living in certain "tropical paradises," like Cuba. In that regard, the Governor of Svalbard has more power than planetary weather.

It looks like an interesting place to visit (in the summer), but I don't think I'd want to live there.

I watched a pretty terrible horror movie that was filmed there. Don't remember the name.

I can recommend a podcast set there if you’re after more Svalbard-themed entertainment!

https://thewhitevault.com

Not sure about a movie but I think the horror-ish show Fortitude was filmed there. First season was good, then downhill from there.

Yeah, that was an interesting show.

This is the movie I was thinking of: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt9183978/?ref_=adv_li_tt

A somewhat forgettable indie flick.

“if you are willing to shovel shit in this part of our country it does not entitle you or your family to the rights of the mainland”

Hey they could send European refugees there so they wouldn't have to risk them gaining residency/citizenship in Norway proper.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/norwegian-po...

8% income tax? Wow.

Mebbe add a [PDF] to the link title?

Ah yes. Thanks!

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