It is surreal how naive people are about both this plus the huge lithium batteries high temperature fire risks and associated high voltage electrocution.
There is a reason we went from high pressure steam power to a lower pressure oil and gas based economy after the Victorian era.
I am not aware of any cars using high voltage [0] yet. But of course getting zapped by low voltage is bad enough.
Risks to Emergency Responders from High-Voltage, Lithium-Ion Battery Fires Addressed in Safety Report
Actions sought by the NTSB in the four safety recommendations issued Wednesday include:
Factoring the availability of a manufacturer’s emergency response guide, and its adherence to International Organization for Standardization standard 17840 and SAE International recommended practice J2990, when determining a U.S. New Car Assessment Program score. Continued research on ways to mitigate or deenergize stranded energy in high-voltage lithium-ion batteries. Continued research on ways to reduce the hazards associated with thermal runaway resulting from high-speed, high-severity crashes. Manufacturer emergency response guides modeled on ISO standard 17840 and SAE International recommended practice J2990. Incorporation of vehicle-specific information in emergency response guides for: Fighting high-voltage lithium-ion battery fires. Mitigating thermal runaway and the risk of high-voltage lithium-ion battery reignition. Mitigating risks associated with stranded energy in high-voltage lithium-ion batteries during emergency response and before a damaged electric vehicle is removed from the scene. Safely storing an electric vehicle with a damaged high-voltage lithium-ion battery. Providing information and available guidance to first responders and other crash scene workers about fire risks associated with high-voltage lithium-ion battery fires in electric vehicles. Fires in electric vehicles powered by high-voltage lithium-ion batteries pose the risk of electric shock to emergency responders from exposure to the high-voltage components of a damaged lithium-ion battery. A further risk is that damaged cells in the battery can experience thermal runaway – uncontrolled increases in temperature and pressure – which can lead to battery reignition. The risks of electric shock and battery reignition/fire arise from the “stranded” energy that remains in a damaged battery.
https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Tesla-Prius-crash-int...
Uncle Toby says lithium ion, so it's not LFP. He talks about a year old Tesla fire, so that was NMC, not LFP.
First, steam is not a fuel. Second, where did you get the idea that steam pressure is higher than what we see with oil and gas fueled machines?
https://petrotechinc.com/how-does-a-steam-turbine-work/
Unfortunately we are burning huge amounts of wood to produce electricity in this way. I prefer small modular nuclear reactors if we want to be environmentally efficient. https://www.wbdg.org/resources/biomass-electricity-generatio....
https://www.euronews.com/green/2022/02/01/south-america-s-li...
Why is lithium extraction bad for the environment? Any type of resource extraction is harmful to the planet. This is because removing these raw materials can result in soil degradation, water shortages, biodiversity loss, damage to ecosystem functions and an increase in global warming.
But when we think of extraction, we think of fossil fuels like coal and gas. Unfortunately, lithium also falls under the same umbrella, despite paving the way for an electric future.. Lithium can be described as the non-renewable mineral that makes renewable energy possible - often touted as the next oil.
Even first generation Leaf batteries are still being sold for reasonable sums of money so we haven't even reached the stage were we are recycling them in ernest yet.
As lithium batteries degrade they become more unstable and fire prone. I'm sure you're familiar with what happens to your laptop battery as it ages - shorter and shorter life, swelling etc.
And of course, laptop batteries get worked -much- harder and treated to much harsher environments than any EV battery.
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/10/20/tesla-switching-to-lfp-batte...
https://tesla-cdn.thron.com/static/TWPKBV_TSLA_Q3_2021_Quart... (page 7)
Lithium is extremely hard to recycle.
50/50, actually.
https://transportgeography.org/contents/chapter4/transportat...
Ferrous metals 65%.
2 How old is that graphic?
3 Manners
"Manners" in this forum means providing credible sources to back up your claims. If you have credible sources that contradict Transport Geography, supply them.
1. https://www.metalsupermarkets.com/what-is-a-ferrous-metal/
https://matmatch.com/resources/blog/advanced-high-strength-s...
AHSS is essentially steel at its core but is very hard to move once damaged, unlike 16 or 18 gauge pure stamped steel in an early 70's era car for example, that was superseded by the high strength low alloys (HSLA) in the late 1970's. If you hammer and dolly the older pure steels there will be a 'memory' of the original stamping it will reconform too. The newer HSLA alloys were much less malleable
It is amazing how fast this world has evolved in the last five years.
High strength 'steel' has a low alloying and carbon content to retain formability and weldability, with copper, titanium, vanadium, and niobium added for strengthening purposes. These are complex alloys that replaced the earlier HSLA and are both very hard to work and also to recycle.
Are you trying to argue that using fossil fuels is better for the environment? It’s not clear if you’re using this opportunity to complain about mining in general or if you’re arguing that we are better off with petrol cars.
By copper mining. Lithium is unnoticeable in comparison.