Comment by cokeandpepsi | Hacker News Reader

Comment by cokeandpepsi | Hacker News Reader

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Jason: Back of the envelope... Twitter revenue per employee: $5B rev / 8k employees = $625K rev per employee in 2021 Google revenue per employee: $257B rev2/ 135K employee2= $1.9M per employee in 2021 Apple revenue per employee: $365B rev / 154k employees= $2.37M per employee in fiscal 2021

Jason: Twitter revenue per employee if 3k instead of 8k: $5B rev/ 3k employees= $1.66m rev per employee in 2021 (more industry standard)

Elon: ["emphasized" above]

Elon: Insane potential for improvement

Jason: <Attachment-image/gif-lMG_2241.GIF>

Jason: Day zero

Jason: Sharpen your blades boys

Jason: 2 day a week Office requirement= 20% voluntary departures

Jason: https://twitter.com/jason/status/1515094823337832448?s=1O&t=...

Jason: I mean, the product road map is beyond obviously

Jason: Premium feature abound ... and twitter blue has exactly zero [unknown emoji]

Jason: What committee came up with the list of dog shit features in Blue?!? It's worth paying to turn it off

Elon: Yeah, what an insane piece of shit!

Jason: Maybe we don't talk twitter on twitter OM @

Elon: Was just thinking that haha

Twitter employees: “we’re going to vote to unionize”

When you have nothing left to lose, why wouldn’t you? It brings the federal government in to provide support, on their dime no less. Worst case is everyone leaves, the NLRB finds against Musk, and he has to give folks their jobs back while Twitter is burning.

“The strongest steel is forged in the fires of a dumpster.”

Why do that as opposed to leaving and competing against him if they have a better idea of how to operate a social media site? His naysayers are convinced he's going to destroy it anyway.

This is not how you win in a rigged system against a billionaire who weaponizes his wealth against everyone who does not take a knee and flouts the law whenever they see fit.

The path to success is voting for decency over power, so I suppose we’ll agree to disagree. To unionize costs Twitter folks only their time and effort. The tools exists, just have to use them. This is what a hacker would do, isn’t it? Use the tools available instead of being goaded into some other mechanisms out of “pride”?

https://www.nlrb.gov/about-nlrb/rights-we-protect/the-law/em...

https://www.nlrb.gov/about-nlrb/what-we-do/conduct-elections

Twitter employees are in the top 1%. They're not poor factory workers. They also own the means of production; a computer.

Tech workers are the new factory workers. I’m unsure why you’re advocating so hard for tolerating abuse from the extremely wealthy (cult of personality?), but that is your right. Abuse need not be tolerated when labor regulations provide you leverage against it.

Let’s not be hyperbolic, it’s a ridiculously cushy job by comparison.

That it's cushy (it is!) does not change that it's not a capital position.

Your average tech worker makes company owners orders of magnitude more than your average factory worker, and are paid what they are because they can demand it. Business owners would pay less if they could. Why shouldn't tech workers, like any other worker, try to maximize their own lot in turn?

Yeah, nah. Most of them can easily find work elsewhere for as good compensation.

So could factory workers.

Let's compare the daily grind of a factory worker to that of an engineer at a place like Twitter (tech worker is really broad):

FACTORY WORKER:

- Gets up early, leaves late

- Performs work that is rote down to a T

- Works extremely hard, physically

- On their feet for large parts of the day

- Must join (and pay to be in) a union for benefits and such

- Extremely fungable

- Paid at or around the US median

TWITTER ENGINEER

- Gets up early...if they want to. Gets out late...if they want to.

- Or they just pull up before your team's standup and peace out at 3pm

- Work on extremely creative tasks b/c software is creative; so much so that some have really cool blogs where they talk about the 0.01% elite engineering shit they do

- Work is extremely demanding mentally while you sit in >$1000 chairs and type on >$1000 standing desks

- Need the standing desk and occasional walk to force themselves to be mobile

- No union, but amazing benefits (see laid off Tweeps getting three months of pay)

- Generally not very fungable

- Paid several times above the US median, and that's before we consider their equity

TL;DR: Come on, dude.

Why are you trying to minimize this? I presume it is acceptable behavior as long as they are making more than you are?

Your fellow citizens do not deserve that kind of treatment, no human does.

If I compensate you accordingly, are you willing to accept sub-human treatment and an environment of constant fear and stress with no sense of accomplishment? Especially in the case of an eccentric billionaire playing financial mechanics with a vanity project?

If its OK because they make all the monies, I imagine it will be OK when it is your neighbors, the Blacks, Jews, LGBTQ+, Asians, dudes name Sally and your Mom's "Aunt Sylvie" from the Home who has all those amazing candies from Eastern Europe?

This is a shit-poor example of Capitalism, and scheming like this over a ** Br3ndN@me™ is the kind of other-over-there-shit that leads to unrest and aquatic tea parties.

Just base, craven, and completely unnecessary in all regards. I cannot imagine an eventuality that is worth the harm he's already caused.

Taking this risk at the absolute worst possible time is already f*cking up Tesla and SolarCity. Regardless of their scam-iness, having real impact.

It's not about compensation. It's about quality of work life.

Working as an engineer is literally one of the cushiest jobs you can get, and it's in super high demand, even now given the layoffs.

I think that it is insulting to factory workers to compare what we do with what they do.

I haven't done factory work, but from what I've read and seen, it's a _true_ grind.

Yeah, like, totally. They're just like a factory worker working in a dangerous factory

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkQbHyLE6Tc

https://twitter.com/DavidSacks/status/1561096423243800576

https://www.tiktok.com/@durbinmalonster/video/71047421704266...

A computer is not the means of production for Twitter. Twitter, the company, is in the business of producing ad impressions for the advertiser. They use Twitter, the platform to do that, so that's their means of production. A computer is just the tool to build and maintain the platform, not directly to produce value. (If Twitter were an IT consulting company, the computer would be a means of production for them.)

Twitter employees certainly don't own Twitter's capital.

They're still workers. Unions aren't "for the poor".

As an engineer I may not know how to run a better social media product. My skill in developing software doesn’t necessarily translate into successful business operator. But I sort of agree, if you’re top talent at twitter it’s time to leave.

"Nothing left to lose", except that $160k-500k yearly compensation.

When end of year hiring freezes and recession jitter layoffs end I don’t think well paid twitter employees will have much trouble finding better employment elsewhere.

In a couple years society has gone from working 40 hours a week at the office to being forced to as "nothing else to lose"

Increased work hours, forced relocation to one of the most expensive metros in the the world, and threat of imminent job loss probably make that yearly compensation less attractive in reality than it is on paper.

Oh, probably. But it's a great argument not to unionize, especially so because the employees are supposedly very valuable and will not have trouble finding a new company that will pay similar salaries and give them permanent WFH. Unions are for the masses, not the elite.

So like how business was done in 2019?

in that case it's good remote work won't be happening there. it's hard for remote workers to get organized.

Not especially. "Hey what's your personal email/phone number?" "Here's an invite to this private slack we've been meeting up on."

there's really something to be said for a group of people literally working together. for instance, before you get the ball rolling you'd like to have an idea of the level of interest and commitment of your fellow workers. your private slack will be filled with people that want a union, this gives you no idea who may not want a union at all, or, more importantly, who's on the fence. you can't make a pitch to those people on your slack, because they have better things to do with their time. but if you're all at work anyway...

If employees managed to organize productivity and profits at every enterprise on earth remotely, you’re probably not right they can’t organize a union unless it’s in person. I’ll point out productivity declines with RTO and everyone acted like they didn’t understand why productivity declined.

All I can say is I’m excited to hire the best employees at twitter and let them work the way they work best.

before they can organize as workers, they need to have class consciousness, and actually working with other workers helps.

Do you think maybe people, who work on computers at a computerized social communication company, have some way to communicate?

yeah, we see all the time how class consciousness has developed on twitter: a thoroughly false, utterly counterproductive class consciousness.

it's not about being able to communicate, it's about being able to see yourself as a member of a class, with the same difficulties as the others, for the same reason, and with the ability to change things through collective action. so communist memes on the discord doesn't cut it.

just talking about things online isn't going to put anyone in the frame of mind to be willing to take a risk for anyone, and there is risk in trying to get a union started.

just talking online means you never reach people that aren't sure about forming or joining a union, but that could be convinced.

or to respond to a snarky quip with a snarky quip:

> Do you think maybe people, who work on computers at a computerized social communication company, have some way to communicate?

i guess that's why tech is overwhelmingly unionized.

Tech has been working out of offices since the beginning. Your argument that remote work prevents that beggars the actual reality of history. I will also bet you $20 most of the unionizing going on now is conducted online.

You just said that WFH is why they aren't unionized. They weren't always WFH, especially going back before 2010.

Pipe dreams

Steel is forged in a fire regardless. Forged steel hardens with cycles of annealing and stress. Which is exactly what layoffs are. Cycles of heating and cooling. Lol

Let me rephrase and see if I got this right:

> Repeated layoffs strengthen a workforce

It sounds to me like you may not have been through a layoff before...

Companies are not forged steel.

What is the source for this conversation?

https://muskmessages.com/d/34.html

It took me way to long to see that Like " ... " meant the emote on the message.

This is an incredible link...

>Day zero 2022-04-15 17:22:12 ( CDT )

>Sharpen your blades boys 2022-04-15 17:22:59 ( CDT )

>2 day a week Office requirement = 20 % voluntary departures

---

These people really don't understand the branding of Apple vs Twitter:

>Back of the envelope ... Twitter revenue per employee : $ 5B rev / 8k employees = $ 625K rev per employee in 2021 Google revenue per employee : $ 257B rev / 135K employee = $ 1.9M per employee in 2021 Apple revenue per employee : $ 365B rev / 154k employees = $ 2.37M per employee in fiscal 2021 2022-04-15 17:08:07 ( CDT )

>Twitter revenue per employee if 3k instead of 8k : $ 5B rev / 3k employees = $ 1.66m rev per employee in 2021 ( more industry standard )

---

hard to tell if this is sarcasm?!

>I will be universally beloved , since it is so easy to please everyone on twitter 2022-04-23 21:04:30 ( CDT )

>It feels like everyone wants the same exact thing , and they will be patient and understanding of any changes ... Twitter Stans are a reasonable , good faith bunch 2022-04-23 21:06:51 ( CDT )

>These dipshits spent a years on twitter blue to give people exactly .... Nothing they want !

---

The sycophantism is over 9k:

> Morgan Stanley and Jared think you are using our friendship not in a good way 2022-05-12 19:31:12 ( CDT )

>This makes it seem like I'm desperate . 2022-05-12 19:31:17 ( CDT )

>Please stop 2022-05-12 19:31:48 ( CDT )

>Only ever want to support you . 2022-05-12 19:37:49 ( CDT )

>Clearly you're not desperate - you have the worlds greatest investors voting in support of a deal you already have covered . you're overfunded . will quietly cancel it ... And to be clear , I'm not out actively soliciting folks . These are our exiting LPs not rondos . Sorry for any trouble 2022-05-12 19:55:14 ( CDT )

>Morgan Stanley and Jared are very upset 2022-05-12 19:55:55 ( CDT )

>Ugh 2022-05-12 19:58:44 ( CDT )

>SPVs are how everyone is doing there deals now ... Luke loved to SPVS etc 2022-05-12 19:59:13 ( CDT )

>Just trying to support you ... obviously . I reached out to Jared and sort it out . 2022-05-12 20:00:53 ( CDT )

>* moved 2022-05-12 20:01:54 ( CDT )

>Yes , I had to ask him to stop . 2022-05-12 20:06:45 ( CDT )

>Liked " Just trying to support you ... obviously . I reached out to Jared and sort it out . " 2022-05-12 22:49:00 ( CDT )

>Cleaned it up with Jared 2022-05-12 22:49:12 ( CDT )

>Liked " Cleaned it up with Jared " 2022-05-12 22:49:58 ( CDT )

>I get where he is coming from .... Candidly , This deal has just captures the worlds imagination in an unimaginable way . It's bonkers .... 2022-05-12 22:51:42 ( CDT )

>And you know I'm ride or die brother - I'd jump on a grande for you 2022-05-12 22:51:49 ( CDT )

>Loved " And you know I'm ride or die brother - I'd jump on a grande for you "

And you know I'm ride or die brother - I'd jump on Ariana Grande for you

Part of the depositions for the court case. Dan luu put them on his site.

>This is a scan/OCR of Exhibits H and J from the Twitter v. Musk case, with some of the conversations de-interleaved and of course converted from a fuzzy scan to text to make for easier reading.

https://danluu.com/elon-twitter-texts/#47

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/23112929-elon-musk-t...

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