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> I guess I'm kind of sympathetic to Apple. At least inasmuch as they can show that sales from unauthorized resellers generate more warranty/support/other expense

Could you provide some proof for such statements?

Proof that I'd be sympathetic if they showed those things? That's a tall ask. But I promise I would be.

Proof that authorized resellers in aggregate provide better service and therefore fewer escalations/expense to the manufacturer? I didn't make that claim for Apple specifically, but it seems plausible.

> but it seems plausible

why? People working at apple stores are not more trained or more competent than people working in other stores.

I think there's some confusion here -- "Apple Authorized Reseller" does not mean "Apple Store". B&H is authorized, Amazon is authorized, Walmart, Target, Best Buy, and T-Mobile are authorized resellers. There's a tiny local shop near me that's authorized.

There are only ~500 Apple stores in the world. There are probably probably 100,000 authorized reseller locations (Walmart alone has 10,000 locations).

Setting aside Apple, the reason companies set up authorized reseller programs is to control the customer experience, from price maintenance (the topic of this HN thread) to brand image to customer satisfaction with returns/refunds.

Being authorized for any manufacturer is kind of a big deal; these companies pay for that arrangement, and there are often training requirements for staff, and minimum purchasing requirements, requirements for return/refund policies, and more. In return, the manufacturer steers business to these retailers and provides them with (often free) brand collateral, demo units, etc.

So if a customer has a complaint, whether it's user error or defective product or a mistake by the retailer or just the customer deciding this product is not for them, there is a strong incentive for the retailer to do right by the customer to avoid jeopardizing their status as authorized.

But if a customer needs help from a no-name reseller who has no direct manufacturer relationship, that reseller has little incentive to fix the issue. It's cheaper to just punt everything to the manufacturer, and there is no reason to do any extra work to protect the manufacturer's brand.

And of course unauthorized resellers have a strong incentive to pass off refurbished or even counterfeit products as real. Lower cost, and there's no bridge to burn with the manufacturer.

So all of that is why I think it's plausible that Apple, and other manufacturers, see increased costs and more negative brand experiences from companies that don't participate in their authorized reseller programs. I'm sure there are great indie companies that do everything right. But, in aggregate, at the scale of an Amazon.com, it seems reasonable for both Amazon and Apple to use the authorized reseller designation as a filter for sellers more likely to treat the customer well.

It seems you lack real world experience of how things actually work when you buy apple at an authorised reseller.

People most certainly got no training, can't fix any issue and just point you to call apple's support number (which isn't cheap).

The problem Apple and an awful lot of other brands have (had) with Amazon, eBay and other stores allowing third-party sellers for their products is that there are an awful lot of scammers around - Apple literally had to build a fake detector for AirPods into iOS [1] because the problem got so out of hand. And yes, obviously they have to deal with a lot of people expecting actual AirPods or other Apple hardware who got fakes and contacted the original brand for support.

It's sad to say but unfortunately I don't see a way out of this mess than strict brand control measures.

[1] https://www.macrumors.com/2022/09/12/iphone-fake-airpods-ale...

> In this specific example, where the claim is that Amazon and Apple colluded to raise prices by only allowing authorized Apple resellers on amazon.com, I guess I'm kind of sympathetic to Apple.

This is false:

“Ultimately Apple proposed, and Amazon agreed, to limit the number of resellers in each country to no more than 20. This arbitrary and purely quantitative threshold excluded even Authorized Resellers of Apple products.”

Apple is alleged to have created an Agreement with Amazon that retroactively limited the marketplaces where Apple Authorized Resellers could sell Apple products.

To be fair, even if Boeing's legal team cuts the CYA maintenance clause out of the purchase agreement, absolutely nothing will change in terms of actual maintenance on the aircraft they sell. The FAA requires all certified aircraft flying in US airspace to be maintained in accordance with the manufacturer's approved instructions as a condition of airworthiness.

Doesn't seem like a great analogy for consumer electronics sales.