Comment by nonrandomstring | Hacker News Reader

Comment by nonrandomstring | Hacker News Reader

nonrandomstring

A measure of precarious mental health is the distance between the person you really are and the person you present. I think it was Erik Fromm who said that.

My sense is that the hyper-normative "correct" credo presented by mass media and social media is an equal and opposite response to something.

The paradigmatic selfie-taking "successful professional" who says and does all the right things has never seemed more a neurotic wreck underneath. The soul must pay for the energy it takes to maintain that appearance.

But also on a societal level, governments mobilising against hate speech and fake news, and the power of niche outrage groups, is proportional to the explosion of diversification and difference under the surface of "post-modern" society.

In other words, people act more normal than ever, but underneath feel more deviant and alienated than ever. That's somehow connected with the real roots of "imposter syndrome". No doubt it's a well recognised phenomenon amongst sociologists and probably has a name I'm ignorant of.

I can’t identify one monolithic hyper-normative “correct” credo in mass media. In my lifetime I have seen the variety of speech (US based tho I understand it is a global change) conveyed thru mass media explode in variety. From three TV stations and the newspaper to hundreds of channels, espousing everything from Yoga being salvific to Yoga being demonic to the science of infrared absorption being simple to elaborate theories about how climate science is a plot to control the citizens, from Elvis music to Public Enemy in the grocery stores’ Muzak.

People write a lot about how they can’t express their beliefs anymore, but you can be a flat earther and be on YouTube and have conventions. There might be, in the US, less people willing to listen to the racist, sexist, and homophobic views that were so popular in the past without protest, but that response is because that is speech directed against people, not for an idea.

https://ifunny.co/picture/conservative-i-have-been-censored-...

> I can’t identify one monolithic hyper-normative “correct” credo in mass media.

Not monolithic but compressed. And not in actuality but in expectation.

> In my lifetime I have seen the variety of speech (US based tho I understand it is a global change) conveyed thru mass media explode in variety.

Yes! 60 years ago you had one job for life and dressed accordingly. Today you've been a Punk who works at Tesco, an Emo in IT, a Greaser in sales and a management suit by the time you're 25. The acceptable expectation is that you "advance". Restive variety of expression is de rigueur.

> From three TV stations and the newspaper to hundreds of channels, espousing everything from Yoga...

I disagree here. While the manifest variety of (mainly user generated) content has enriched, late capitalism has compressed meaningful choice via consolidation. There were 60 newspapers only couple of decades ago, scores of media companies... now we talk about the Big Five (or is it the Big Three now?)

> People write a lot about how they can’t express their beliefs anymore, but you can be a flat earther and be on YouTube and have conventions.

Indeed, that's part of the paradox around expectation. Writing about being oppressed by the man is normative. A "flat earther" could even work for NASA doing orbital calculations, and nobody would bat an eyelid, provided they did "flat earth stuff" in a respectable, acceptable way.

What is allowed and what is "expected" (and most cruelly expected of/by ourselves) are different things.

NASA? Could a flat Earther actually get anything accomplished at NASA besides janitorial work?

> janitorial work

Who do you think cleans the windows on the ISS? And still they don't beleive.

> I can’t identify one monolithic hyper-normative “correct” credo in mass media. In my lifetime I have seen the variety of speech (US based tho I understand it is a global change) conveyed thru mass media explode in variety

I can't see how anyone can say this seriously. In our urban college-educated tech circles, your speech is heavily censored.

Joe Rogan runs the most popular podcast among young American men, and I haven't been in a single room over the last 5 years where I could openly profess to listening to him in an unqualified manner. Similarly, I haven't heard a single person say "I think ex-social justice darlings and the most successful comedian (Chapelle) and author (JK Rowling) are misunderstood".

In my 6 years as relatively extroverted person in the US, I have yet to run into a single Republican my age. That's half of all voters in this country. I had to jump around and obfuscate using vague language to even suggest that the books of Kendi/DiAngelo might have some criticisms. There are at least 10 more opinions which I think are 'duh' obvious and I won't dare say them on an account which can be traced to my identity.

In 2022, everyone lives in bubbles and those bubbles enforce a "monolithic hyper-normative 'correct' credo" onto everyone in that circle. I can only point to the ones I see in mine. The big change is that these circles are now all encompassing. The same wealthy-urban-highly-educated circle encompasses my work, friendships and dating life.

> There might be, in the US, less people willing to listen to the racist, sexist, and homophobic views that were so popular in the past without protest, but that response is because that is speech directed against people, not for an idea.

IMO, under the guise of 'good intentions' a lot of privileged Americans are happy to discard anyone who does not perfectly fit into their definition of 'ally'. It is a self-fulfilling prophecy too, because once you're accused, you are deemed guilty and immediately discarded. These outcasts then go to the only place that will professionally and socially them, and that usually tends to be the other similarly demanding circle of MAGA Republicans.

The idea that everyone's opinions are expected to naturally move in lock step with 2022 activists college students opinions is hilarious. The fact that this isn't obvious to some people deep in these circles is a scathing indictment and proof of how isolating these bubbles can be.

p.s: I am criticizing one type of 'imposing monolith' because it is the one I most often see myself surrounded by. I am sure there is a similar story of 'other groups monolith', but I don't have much visibility into that life.

I'd say you have it backwards, and are trying to follow outdated "norms" yourself in a world that's chiefly discarded them. That's the definition of social conservatism, by the way.

People do not really discard easily - you must actually do or say something that is actively harmful, especially to them, and has been repeatedly shown to do so to be actually excluded. There is often a reason things are not said or done, and it is not something to be discarded offhand without looking into it. "But free speech" is never an excuse to be harmful.

People often do things without reflection. You already said you're a republican, branding yourself an ideologue or team sports player rather than someone one would want to discuss with. After all, how many ideologues does one need to talk with to know all their points in detail, especially as simple as US brand of neoliberal social conservatism?

Sorry to break it to you, you have me all wrong.

I am a young-ish immigrant whose most recent partner worked in one of the SJWiest professional jobs. I am best friends with many communists (like real ones, who have immigrated from countries where that's a thing). I am the YIMBYiest of YIMBYs, an atheist and fairly good at keeping appearances. If I could vote, I would've ended up voting Democrat (however reluctantly). My almost-a-coop-house roommates were so diverse that we looked more like the painfully diverse university pamphlets than a real house, and it was the best time of my life. And I am actively moving to arguably the bluest neighborhoods in all of US some time in 2023.

What part of this reads Republican to you ? In fact, it is because I am considered an 'in' person, that I get to hear the kind of blind faith that gets peddled around as facts in many of the circles I inhabit.

> actively harmful

You keep saying that, but never elaborate on what you mean by it. It is convenient to have harmful mean "things said by people I am not supposed to like". I have been bullied enough through school to know what bullying looks like. The pressure to conform is now higher than ever.

The most dangerous people I've ever met have been the ones who are absolutely sure that they are right. Today, I see that strain most often among my fellow educated-urban-blue-coded circles.The fact that they are able to sustain a number of obvious logical contradictions in their heads points to a level of either brainwashing or fear that is dangerous for any human.

I don't dislike this new brand of pseudo-liberals because they hate the christian conservatives. I specifically dislike them because they ARE religious conservatives. Just a different religion.

> as simple as US brand of neoliberal social conservatism

The hubris to make that statement my man. Try to sit down with them for once, over weeks, over months and slowly their side of things will make sense to you. You don't have to agree with it. I don't either. But, 'without reflection' it is not. Sit down with someone with empathy and explore difficult topics. Nothing is obvious in this world. Deriving a worldview that is consistent with your core values is difficult, and we have so little visibility into the long term effects of our actions.

See "Emotional Neglect".

If a kid cannot access and process his emotions, he will eventually lose himself.

Interesting lead. Thank you.

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