Ask HN: Work instead of tech? | Hacker News Reader

Ask HN: Work instead of tech?

58 pointsneedanewplan77 comments

Obviously a throwaway.

I've been doing tech for years (20+). I've been through the startup ringer. I've founded my own company (and exited, nothing real). I've dealt with all of it. It just feels like everything is moving bits now - and the bits sometimes have new fun names, the systems change, the language changes, but it's moving bits. I've had a meaningful, impactful career - I've mentored, given back, done charity work too. I have gratitude, thankfulness, health, and religion. But I'm done. Whether it's working on cool tech, or doing meaningful work like supporting freedom on country X.. I'm done.

I'm trying to figure out what else I can do with my life. What else is there that is middle-of-the-road salary-wise, like tech. I'm not looking for massive FAANG like salary replacement, stock, etc. But I am trying to figure out what else I can do that is in any way similar to the middle.

I think a lot of us think about this - I know that I have many conversations about it that others bring up. So I thought.. crowdsource? What does HN think?

View on HN

I think you should step away from platforms like HN, live life (real life, offline) and find out what you enjoy. I don't think you'll find an answer through the thing you want to leave. Kinda like people trying to fix their smartphone addiction by installing an app on their smartphone. It may work for some, but it seems like an odd approach.

(Doing a bit of an assumption here that after 20 years of tech work you're not broke.)

I tried this but eventually I think about money in the bank not growing and it makes me sad. It’s just the sad reality.

I have switched industry before and you kind of start from 0.

What you are describing doesn't necessarily sound like an issue with the tech sector, but rather that you are a bit burnt out.

My suggestion: try to take some time off, either by not working or just working on some very unambitious projects that give you time to relax. Do this for at least 2-3 months. Sleep, eat, treat yourself well.

Then slowly start tinkering with whatever tickles your interest (only once you feel like it). This can be a a tech side project, playing the guitar or bartending.

This recipe has helped me re-discover my energy in the past.

It might lead you to something in tech or outside tech.

Just my 2 cents.

Very much relate to this comment.

I burned out twice. Both times I took a break with the intention of starting a new career.

The first time I considered getting into music professionally only to find that my colleagues were not only substantially more educated and technically capable but also that they had to focus a lot of energy on teaching and traveling. I had enough savings that when I returned to contract work I could do it very much part-time and pursue music heavily with little profit motive.

The second time I burned out I tried to get into the mental health space only to find that the training was too intense and that the pay was not going to be great unless I went back to grad school, again, which I was not interested in. Again, I returned to working part-time.

Eventually I found a role where I could work 30 hours per week with full benefits and people who I like. Plenty of vacation time for touring and attending music intensives.

At least for me, the key to preventing burnout is not working full-time which gives me time to start and end my day putting energy into satisfying my interests and passions with no profit motive.

That's a great read, many people get burned out. Have spoken to a few people who left the industry to do something else, most of them came back a few never did. The grass isn't always greener, some people can easily work through a burnout and come through the other side, others simply need a few months off to re-ignite the flame. It can just be working in the wrong environment, switch to a smaller team maybe? A few friends of mine ditched the startup wheel and now work for an agency producing "standard" websites/cms and enjoy their life so much more.

I don't think it's burnout, I think it's boredom. OP can be perfectly rested and want to try something new, similar to how if you have pasta for dinner everyday you may eventually want to try something else.

Underwater welders make a lot. It's risky work, but you get to do pro level diving (the risky part) and welding metal at something like 3000 degrees...while under water.

Might also make you explore diving more which is a ...whole other world.

Good luck and take care.

According to the BLS[0], there's less than 3000 commercial divers in the US, which includes underwater welding. Further on with underwater welding, it's dangerous, painful work that has long term risks (such as vision damage).

There's also just "standard" welding as well, but its the same story - working more than 40 hours, constantly being burned by molten metal, weak pay/benefits, and both short and long term health risks that are simply not worth the compensation.

[0] - https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes499092.htm

Become a Freemason. It’s an excellent way to ‘go horizontal’ by meeting a lot of decent people (well, men) from all walks of life and with many different experiences to share. You will find inspiration, fellowship and real life there.

Here in the UK there don’t seem to be too many techies in the Masons as yet, but I suspect this will grow as WFH does and people look to replace missing face-to-face relationships.

One is made a mason, and doesn't just choose to become one though. The point I think in this thread about a new plan is getting exposure to other men and their roles and find out how you might fit being useful at something else. Masonry is interesting and you meet more new people than you may have in school, but I wouldn't go into it with any expectation other than going on an unexpected journey. Though I also heartily recommend it. It takes some basic courage (or crazy) to approach a lodge, and and that itself is a pretty good filter.

The bar that you have to believe in a supreme being disqualifies a lot of tech people. The people I have seen fail out of it were typically in outside sales, politicians, and other people whose jobs involved transactional relationships with others. The guys who stick around are senior individual contributors, entrepreneurs, trades, pro musicians, corporate lawyers, accountants, military, execs, and a large cohort of private school guys or ones who were in frats at school. For me, I saw the quality of people who have claimed to be against them and decided that was as good a recommendation as any.

Wouldn't it be easier just to attend meetups? Plenty of them in London.

I am very suspicious of Freemasonry, and the more I look into the organization the stranger it all seems.

meet some and you'll find it all very silly.

How should I know you to be a Mason?

secret handshake.

What do you care about?

Or rather what do you "fear"?

Care is a much bigger word than you think.

Heidegger put it ('Sorge') at the centre of existential philosophy. But what he is really getting at is a kind of 'anxiety' that drives the soul to have meaning through being. Without it you're in the realms of questions more appropriate to Shakespeare's Hamlet.

I would encourage you "to be".

My solution to this was to try and solve real people’s problems with tech. Being able to sit down with the person using your thing gives a tangible feedback cycle to your work.

Instead of “I pushed this update and maybe this metric changed 8%? Or maybe something else did it?”

You get towards “Sue saved 2 hours of her normal workday today and got to go home to her family on time”

You’re still using those skills you’ve built, but in a very different way. One that I find creates a lot more dopamine.

Have you considered buying a motorcycle?

This guy Zens and the Arts.

This is a Quality comment.

I personally believe world would be slighlty better without motorcycles. Somehow most of them (or, at least, most of the ones people choose to buy) are much louder than cars, even though they have much smaller mass. Seems like the loudness is a design goal almost.

I wholeheartedly disagree. There are certainly people involved with motorcycles that seek attention and try to be as anti-social as possible. But that is by no means representative of the overall motorcycle community. They are just the ones that makes the most noise (pun intended).

Motorcycles acts as therapy for a lot of people, myself included. Without them, my life would be a lot less enjoyable.

People are modifying their bikes to be loud. Stock motorcycles are fine.

I can second this, I've met some lifelong friends through motorcycles + explored so much of the world.

Work is what you do for money… but you spend a lot of time doing it. If you don’t need a ton of cash.. Work in Academia. It’s kinda like a start up in that the teams are small and they’re isn’t a ton of support, but the pressure is less. There are interesting projects and collaborations. Pay is lower but not bad, they give good benefits and don’t crush you all the time. There’s politics but in software you can mostly ignore it.

Counterpoint - my dad is a software engineering professor, and while he does get summers off, when he's working he's working very long days. There's always pressure to get grades in, generate new research papers, deal with politics, and deal with students.

Academia is far from a low-pressure career.

Yeah, most of the academics I know are miserable. I'd still love to do a PhD sometime, but without feeling the need to turn it into an academic career.

I kinda meant jobs in academia that are not being an academic. I work as a programmer in a lab, so I'm isolated from the pressure the PIs and postdocs face.

I think you are searching for some kind of meaning. Maybe instead of something big, think small. Often the most local small things can make a huge direct impact or even things that are more internalized, things that still make you giddy inside like a kid.

In the last couple of years, I've set up a local code club for kids, starting doing all the admin for my son's Scouts group, taken over running a monthly board games club, and started painting Warhammer figures. Work is still boring, but it matters much less.

You obviously know a bit about how things work. Why not look into building some 'low effort' businesses and focus on things that make you actually happy, whatever it makes money or not.

Simple obvious things. A online shop or reselling trough whatever channels, maybe something niche you are passionate about. The right affiliate idea can bring plenty of money for little actual work (after building it).

I am done with the industrie as well, however the skillset I acquired is still what makes me money with the least resistance I just focus on things that are easy once done and don't require a lot more work on success.

I don't know that I would call tech salaries "middle of the road". We're lucky enough that we're in an industry that leaves a lot of flexibility on the table, it's doable keeping a decent tech income and doing something more meaningful with your life as well. I don't know what's going to lighten you up so I won't give any specific advice, but for my part I'm eager to go back to school for something completely unrelated (that's also a professional dead end, but who cares).

Maybe try 80000hours.org Otherwise let me know if you want to talk. I was in a similar spot just two years ago.

And what did you do?

I jumped head first learning everything I could about crypto and build my own business in this space. I think there is value after all the crazy hype of the last 2 years. But then, this is mostly where I cam from. Fortune 25 GM (Finance) -> Startup -> Startup.

I went the other way, started in the charity sector then moved into tech, well, tech roles in non-profits. Totally get the impulse, and also why "doing meaningful work like supporting freedom on country X" doesn't appeal.

What really helped in my transition was the fact that I was able to carry over part of what I'd left behind. In my case, it was that I'd worked for non-profits, so I was a more attractive hire than people who were technically much stronger. After a quick year on shit money putting together a little experience, I actually had a nice pay bump when the dust settled.

The best stuff would be where you could still use some of your skills, but in a way that doesn't feel like you've got a tech job. Being able to bosh out a bit of code where needed makes you a wizard in a lot of areas.

Just spitballin', but someone with the ability to hack together scripts and quickly get their head around software can do wonders with architecture, "classical" engineering, VFX/3D, finance/accountancy. It wouldn't be for me, but if you've got decent cash together, most of the rich people I know get into some sort of investing or other.

I guess in the other direction. If I ever felt I needed to give my brain a serious break, I'd get back into kitchens. They're great places to work: fast, fun and completely different. I'd honestly struggle to keep up, but it'd keep me busy whilst I regroup.

Make the lives of a few people much, MUCH better by joining a clinical team and working on a clinical trial!

Pay is terrible compared to other tech jobs, but generally much better than the average salary, so you're not going to starve by any means. You get to be on a very smart team that treats patients. And every day is that "wow I can't believe I'm doing this, and also I don't really know what I'm doing" feeling — and it's shared by everyone because you're pushing the boundary of standard of care.

And the BEST part is that I'm not some tech genius, I haven't even worked at FAANG before, but everyone looks at you like you're some genius because you're most likely one of the very few technical people there- so you'll end up writing code, working with the lab and clinical team to document stuff, build data collection and report generation systems, etc. It's not as sexy as the next big fancy app, but again your work could help a lot of people.

But better yet, I think there are many more fields in the world that need a tech person to assist them like this, in any industry (from trucking to farming to clinical to whatever), and it'll be equally rewarding. Hope you find your next thing!

I'm slowly getting into law while working my 16th year in tech. It's about the same salary, and instead of reading books worth of technical docs, you read books worth of legislation. The good part is that legislation isn't changing as frequently as technical docs, so you're not required to invest as much of your spare time to stay up to date as a SSE does.

Hiring in the law sector has been trending down for some years now. Law is one of the only sectors of the economy that has a thriving market for services that help lawyers get out of legal work. It can be good for some people, but it can also eat people alive and cause burnout in ways similar to tech. Would very much recommend caution when considering this path.

How did you make the shift? I have actually had a lot of the same thoughts. It seems like a lot of the abilities and "thoroughness" needed in tech, would be transferable to law. I can only say that I spent quite a lot of time reading legal documents as part of technical and security-related due diligence and my background reading specifications and planning software architecture, is directly transferable.

Did you use your technical skills as leverage for your career in law? I heard that it's very common for ex-developers to work on IP, patents, etc.

Law is an excellent fit for tech skills IMO, if you also have a personality that fits the kind of law you want to do.

This is true on multiple levels. Legal documents and briefs work like code in some ways, and the core function of the practice of law is to apply rigorous logic and rules in an accessible way (although people often disagree as to the result). It tends to feel natural to a coder.

It’s also true because tech skills make the practice of law easier. Like most office work, you can often write scripts to automate things and be an absolute hero to your coworkers. In litigation, at least, some career paths also involve quite a bit of data management, and your ability to handle a moderately complex excel spreadsheet will pay dividends. Beyond that, in patent litigation or even some contract or copyright litigation, you’re going to be dealing with “technical experts”—and with a solid tech background you will often run circles around them.

Honestly many of the scariest, sharpest lawyers in some parts of law have tech backgrounds.

I found synergies in many cases. As D13Fd said, legislation is very similar to code, with many intertwined sections, references and conditions. You'll need a sense for detail if you want to find ways to push the right of your client through court.

Similar to the backend/frontend specialization in coding, a lawyer may specialize in a certain sector. Reading through the legislation is quite similar to reading through a legacy codebase, and writing notices is somewhat similar to structuring and crafting new code, which will always be based on the same 'framework' (if you work in a single country).

Especially in cases regarding data protection, as a SSE you'll always have a good advantage over many of your peers, as you'll easily identify nonsense and can often provide in-depth investigations.

Take a break and give yourself some distance to think about it.

Don't ask the internet for answers.

Don't continue to do things you're not happy with.

Just give yourself some time to think. And think deeply about it.

Write down things you enjoyed doing as a kid, teen, adult. Write down other career options or education you may need to pursue them. And then take some action when you've picked a direction.

Plumbing.

Plumbers make a killing. You're also out and seeing different places, different locations, and clients generally treat you with respect. It's also physical work but not demanding, so should help with your health so long as the microbes don't get to you.

If you can, try to take an entire year off. Spend this year exploring. Do things you would never do, push your edges, take excellent care of yourself. It's a big world and you have a lot of value to contribute it many many different places.

Buy a small farmstead in an area where others that have jumped the tech/corporate/finance ship too, people that are likely to have some cash saved up as a buffer.

Keep a few animals (cats and/or dogs mandatory, otherwise optional), maintain an orchard with fruit trees, specialize on one or two niche cash crops that can be sold. Be largely self-sufficient within the community (think barter and "barnraising" [0]).

Combine with some forestry and DIY low tech; like solar- wind- dam- projects. Enjoy!

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barn_raising

i'm curious what ways you're combining forestry and tech?

"Combine with" as in "throw some forestry and DIY tech into the mix". I focused on OPs "I'm done" sentiment, and imagined something completely different, for someone ready to drop out of tech altogether.

Something I could imagine doing myself at some point. Of course, for people not wanting to drop out completely this setup might be combined with some small part remote tech work on the side too.

yeah i get it. i have access to some forest land + tech skills and have wanted to do this, but haven't found or envisioned any projects. i'm not a forester so i don't have domain knowledge. the most i can think of is a weather station or a trail camera. also found a github repo that can determine a site's basal area but not sure how to use that info since i'm not a forester.

When I feel this way, I contemplate getting an ATP and trying to become a pilot for the airlines. Glorified taxi driver, doing a well defined task day in day out. Work schedule is some weeks on, weeks off. So, a regular change of pace.

Salary requirements aside, what else are you looking for in your next career? i.e. are you most interested in learning something new, connecting with others, doing something meaningful, etc.

You probably have a decent network, so if you wanted you could contract part-time and use the rest of your time to explore new ventures. That's how I handled a similar transition. I used the time I freed up to explore new skills, reflect deeply (journaling and on walks through nature), and meet new people from different walks of life.

I've thought about becoming a bus driver or working in the post office. The pay and benefits are decent, and the work is important. It's not glamorous work, but they're not bullshit jobs (as David Graeber would say: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullshit_Jobs).

The biggest thing keeping me where I'm at is that I'm working 100% remote. If I were called into an office, I'd quit.

I know a bloke in Portugal who has a side business in tourism. He organizes events and tours. Depending on where you live (or want to live), it might be a nice option.

Do something outside of work. I similarly have begun to feel that all the current work in tech is just solving the same problems over and over again.

But, while I soldier on and do good work to earn that paycheck during the day, I've also started deepening my outside-of-work activities. That gives my brain new and more interesting things to think about and alleviates the "but what is it FOR" feeling.

INFO: what are your hobbies? What do you like to do?

Otherwise I can tell you what I would like, but it might not sound interesting to you at all.

Electrician or plumber? You get to logically solve problems but in the physical realm. And due to demand you should be paid well.

Another one. Old school selling in real life - like at a market stall or stall at a convention. Selling niche items. Maybe even something you make or 3d print yourself.

Investing can be fun. Pick some promising companies and get to know them inside and out. It's fun because you essentially make money by better understanding the present and predicting the future than others. Risky though (as we're seeing now), and you need some capital.

You may gather lot of info on tech problems.

I have once stopped work, and switched to learn, and now trying to create revolutionary new solutions.

At the moment, I don't know exact way, how this will change world, I'm trying many variants, and eventually will find this my way.

Maybe you'll enjoy reading about my own transition from tech to psychotherapy: http://glench.com/WhyIQuitTechAndBecameATherapist/

Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened. — Matthew 7:7-8, KJV

There are a TON of industries out there that have "tech people" but aren't tech. And if you find the right smaller one, you can be the "tech guy" while working entirely in a non-tech industry.

Depends on where you choose to live. From what I'm seeing, the various trades people are earning very good incomes, in the same ballpark as the majority of IT (non-FAANG) staff.

This is a very good advice. There are huge drawbacks (mostly because of physical strain, and we are talking about a change in OP's 40-s, 50-s) but the mix of predictability, job security and unexpected things popping up is nice.

I would go that way if there was a trade with less physical constraints that electricians for instance (I never looked in details, there are probably many such jobs)

trades are brutal for your body and I wouldn't recommend picking one up in your late 30s.

Plumbing yes, but an electrician?

A day of pulling wire through conduit can be quite taxing.

I never found something that made sense. It always worked out that I should reduce hours, work part time at a high salary, control my schedule, and have some hobbies.

I find home improvement projects really fun. I have a desire to do things with my hands that software devdlopment just doesn't scratch that itch for me.

Some advice,

What are you non-tech passionate about?

Would contributing tech solutions to that subject and people working in that passion area help?

That is one of the questions you should be exploring.

Maybe you are looking for new things to experience? Working part-time while traveling the world would keep you busy for the next 2-5 years.

How about e-commerce? It’s similar but you also need to learn the domain of your products. Which might (or might not) be a fun challenge.

Best of luck!

Learn a musical instrument, join a band.

Become a freelance war journalist.

You can take a break and go traveling :)

And even work remotely if you end up liking it

hydroponic/aquaponic farming?

Bee keeping

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