My DIY ergonomic travel workstation with aluminum and magnets | Hacker News Reader

My DIY ergonomic travel workstation with aluminum and magnets

thume.ca

215 pointstrishume89 comments

FYI, I curate setups like these on https://reddit.com/r/ergomobilecomputers

I use to be able to read Reddit links on my phone browser, now they simply it a useless banner preventing me from being able to even read the thing unless I download their tracker. Now, I need to train my brain to never click on Reddit links when reading HN on phone :-(

There are browser extensions like PrivacyRedirect (iOS app) and LibRedirect (Chrome, Firefox …), that have the ability to redirect you to alternative reddit frontends (teddit and so on).

You can just edit the link into `i.reddit.com/<whatever>`, it still works on phones. Bonus, it uses less data and little to no js.

also `old.reddit`

Or add .rss on the end

Or .compact

This no longer seems to be working for me. Did something change on reddit's end?

https://www.reddit.com/r/jpegxl

https://www.reddit.com/r/jpegxl.rss

Seems to be working for me, though the feed doesn't quite validate:

https://validator.w3.org/feed/check.cgi?url=https%3A%2F%2Fww...

Another option for some users: “Request Desktop Website” on iOS/Safari.

The Apollo app is great, unfortunately it involves installing an app and a Safari plugin that still can't open up Reddit pages in the app directly.

Not sure what’s wrong with your setup but this has worked pleasantly well for me for quite some time now

If you use nice third party app Apollo you get a share sheet action to "open this link in Apollo" which skips their ads and tracking and what have you.

Ooo you did that! I love your subreddit. We need to find more examples for it.

Thanks! Yeah, I've spelunked many corners of reddits, discords, twitter, and geekhack forums for the posts so far, but happy with what it has overall. Initially started as just an upload of bookmarks. Feel free to share your setup when ready!

Curating what's been there helped me find some ideas less common or at the edge of the keyboard/cyberdeck scenes, and inspired me finally start prototyping. Stay tuned.

There's definitely other things I've found but didn't post if it felt too keyboard-focused (plenty of other subreddits doing that), or too boutique & cyberdeck-y (i.e. not everyday use).

Oh I love this! Doubling as a carrying case is a great idea. I like the flat-pack assembly with the spacers parts. What's the weight of the full assembly like?

I did something similar to this last year, but without the travel goal (just trying to get myself to move around and work outside more). Instead of mating the keyboard to the base, I attached some larger magnets to the bottom of the keyboard by setting them into a custom aluminum bottom plate (also from SendCutSend) and made a flat desk surface out of ferromagnetic steel.

https://ianthehenry.com/posts/kyria-build/bespoker-aluminum-...

One advantage of this is that I can move around the keyboard halves freely, angling them differently throughout the day. Which is also sort of a disadvantage, but they stick pretty well in place if I'm not trying to mess with them. I can also attach some other things that I slapped magnets on (mostly a mechanical pomodoro timer that I use for writing).

https://i.imgur.com/S0bstNs.png

I experimented with some alternate keyboard mounting strategies, but didn't find anything that made a big difference.

https://i.imgur.com/ohNWhhS.png

This is my second magnetic keyboard lap desk prototype. My first was far too heavy, so to reduce weight I just bent a piece of sheet steel around a piece of cork (the sharp bends add a lot of rigidity). I think the next one will be tented a bit... SendCutSend does bending now; I bet I could laminate steel to a thin aluminum frame...

Oh cool! I've been working on something similar. I am trying to move to a more ergo keyboard from a straight ortho and wanting to build something that fits on top of my laptop when I'm in bed, etc. So I had some "core" 6x3 boards build and glued magnets on the bottom:

https://imgur.com/a/FNn32o4

I'm now waiting on my thumb cluster PCBs from china as well as my corne-style column stagger cores. I've also moved from raw header pins to JST SH 4 and 6 pin connectors to connect the raw row and column signals to a central board.

The intent is to play around with angle, position, splay, etc until I find something I like. The magnetic parts make it a lot easier (and cheaper!) to make changes.

I bought an inexpensive 12"x12" magnetic steel bulletin board from Amazon for the base.

Is that leather on top of the plate? I bought a piece of leather to try that out for mine too.

Yep! Got a piece of tooling leather, roughed up the steel with sandpaper, and affixed it with gorilla glue two part epoxy. If you go that route, make sure you clean the steel with soap -- my first attempt started to delaminate after a few months, I think because I didn't do that. After the epoxy cured I cut it to size and burnished the edges with a cheap wooden burnisher and some beeswax.

I used a piece of undyed vegetable-tanned leather that I treated with neatsfoot oil and left in the sun for a few days. The oil takes it from pale pink to an ugly, mottled liver color, but as it rests in the sun it develops that warm, rich tan. (This is sort of off-topic but that board was my first time "finishing" leather myself, and I like the look and feel of it so much that I've done it for all my leather projects since.)

Oooh nice! Your Kyria posts are actually where I first learned about how awesome and cheap SendCutSend is, and got some of the inspiration for the magnets.

I actually ordered a plain steel plate first, but I realized that given that I needed them in a different position to travel compactly than the wide position I like for typing, I wanted them to snap in consistent positions so it wasn't finicky to line up exactly how I liked them.

What ball joint mounts are you using? They aren’t the standard 1” balls right?

As I clicked on the link, my mind was wondering how it would compare to the last DIY keyboard I saw ... which was trishume's. I should read the username before clicking :)

Thank you for sharing your new workstation, Tristan. This one looks quite a bit less intimidating than the last one--I think I'll finally start dabbling in the DIY keyboard world.

One thing I need to figure out/work on is how to turn the output from any of the DIY designs into PS/2 signals. My desktop setup requires that.

Currently using the PS/2 version of https://www.ergodirect.com/product_info.php?products_id=450, which has been discontinued for a while. If this keyboard dies, DIY might be the only option for an ergonomic PS/2 keyboard.

Can you not use a standard USB to ps/2 adapter?

Unfortunately it's not very simple.

Converting PS/2 signals to USB is trivial.

USB to PS/2 is a different story. Only a small subset of USB keyboards support it. They keyboard basically needs to send PS/2 over USB.

This reminds me of a portable dual monitor setup that I tried to build. I used PVC pipe fittings and USB monitors.

The most difficult part for me was getting the screw holes lined up for VESA mount. I didn't have access to a 3D printer, so I was just cutting wood panel and drilling holes by hand.

Also PVC was too unwieldy. Making the necessary hinge joints was hard because of how much space the pipe took up.

Hmm, now I want to revisit my design. If only I had more time.

Also, I now have access to 3D printers, laser cutters, and a CNC machine at the STEM lab of my local public library. It's actually a shame how underutilized this place is. I was there during open hours, and no one was using any equipment except for the 3D printer. There is also a recording studio.

> The most difficult part for me was getting the screw holes lined up for VESA mount.

Use a blind hole transfer punch. You can make your own with the right sized bolt and a grinder.

https://www.amazon.com/TTC-Blind-Hole-Spotter-Diameter/dp/B0...

I made a wood plate VESA adapter recently. I used a paper template for the hole spaceing, and a nail to mark the holes so the drill bit didn't lose centering when starting the holes. To make the template, I taped a piece of paper over the VESA plate and rubbed the side of a pencil lightly over paper on top of the holes. Leaves nice circular marks where the holes are.

I built a Mobile workstation out of an old dslr tripod after I saw one on Amazon (0). Game changer for me.

I can use it sitting down like a traditional desk, or standing up. Occasionally I bring it all the way down and squat in front of it. Surprisingly challenging.

It packs rather slim but it’s not as fancy as the Amazon version

0 https://www.amazon.com/TRIPODSY-Portable-Standing-Adjustable...

Does it take a long time to adjust the height between sitting and standing? Without any tripod experience I would assume it would require carefully adjusting each of the three legs whenever you want to change height. Is that true, or is there some mechanical cleverness at work?

Yeah, you gotta adjust each leg individually. That's what tripods are designed to do after all :)

In my opinion, ZSA have absolutely nailed it with the “Platform” for the Moonlander. It is absolutely perfect for tenting, adjustable to whatever angle you want and rock solid on the table. It can also pack down flat and still fit in the case. It’s still a pretty hefty set up though, I wouldn’t mind seeing them make some kind of mini version for out and about whilst either still keeping the same amount of keys or dropping the num row and the third button on the thumb pad which is too far to comfortably reach.

I am so happy with the set up that I am currently weighing up buying a second one despite the price and storing it away in case it all kicks off in Taiwan in the next couple of years and my Moonlander breaks. Sad that we have to consider such things now but possibly prudent.

For anyone interested: https://www.zsa.io/moonlander/platform/

What's the static electricity story here? I personally avoid any and all metal fixtures around my work desk, because I invariably end up being painfully shocked by them every time I shift on the chair[0]. At this point I habituated having small metal objects around me (e.g. key bundles), that I can use to discharge static before/during getting up, sitting down, etc.

Where 'ianthehenry mentioned here[1] they've made a desk surface out of steel, I pretty much fainted reading it.

(Worst related working experience in my life was, a few jobs back, customers' brand new headquarters built in the "modern" style of carpets + glass + aluminum. There, every single surface would shock me when I touched it with my bare hands - even glass window panes were out to get me.)

----

[0] - Any of the several chairs I tried. So it's not just about the chair, I think.

[1] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33528148

Seconded. I lived in Phoenix for a few years and the static was awful. Maybe OP lives in a humid place?

What's in Phoenix that causes static electricity?

Low average relative humidity.

And the wrong kind of carpet, yikes. Loved the area, but never got used to the enormous static shocks I got in my office.

I think that there are a lot of aluminum Mac laptops in Phoenix (and other brands too.) Maybe some of their owners are reading this and can share their experiences with static, or the lack of.

To me, the main factors are:

- shoes sole

- floor material (especially carpet)

- relative humidity

Combinations of all three explain all discharges I've endured :)

If I don't discharge myself to radiator, I'll discharge to macbook. It didn't cause damage yet, but I feel uneasy when that happens. So I prefer discharging myself often, especially at winter when air is dry.

If that's a big problem for you, it's possible to wear some resistor as a gadget and discharge via this resistor to some grounded thing. It'll limit electricity flow and you won't feel anything.

I live in Missouri, where winter humidity is super low and everything is shocky.

I actually liked having a steel top desk - I learned (conditioned myself) to put my hand on top of the desk while standing up, so the charge would let itself out of my hand gingerly rather than building up and blowing up my phone when I reached to pick it up. So I put a piece of aluminum tape and wired it to a grounded case (like my PC or directly to an outlet ground) and learned to put a finger on it every time I stood up.

I also use a lot of heavy duty staticide on fabrics. https://www.aclstaticide.com/products/heavy-duty-staticide

In some places I've had to use remote KVM extenders, which are HIGHLY susceptible to ESD pulses from office chairs. A few times every hour the screen blacks out for a second, usually returning to normal, just because someone stood up. D.C. Smith wrote a few papers [0][1] on it that bolstered the ESD-safe industry.

[0] http://emcesd.com/pdf/eos93.pdf

[1] https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/819080

> In some places I've had to use remote KVM extenders, which are HIGHLY susceptible to ESD pulses from office chairs. A few times every hour the screen blacks out for a second, usually returning to normal, just because someone stood up.

Apparently so are HDMI cables. A HN thread few months ago clued me in on this, and this solved a weird issue I had with my work laptop: it would randomly bluescreen; at first, once a month, but after a year it was closer to once or twice a week. There was no obvious pattern to it, except it almost always happened within a minute of me getting up from the chair. I suspected it was overheating, but ensuring it's cooling properly didn't help. The problem went away when I stopped using and actually unplugged the external display, and now it seems very likely it was the cable picking up ESD from the gas piston of my office chair.

I immediately recognised the stand as the Roost [0] because I have one, but OP links to Amazon with a different name. Was Roost ripped off or do they simply white label this?

[0] https://www.therooststand.com/

Interesting - I thought it was the NextStand K2 that I bought 5+ years ago...

I have both. As far as I understand, the Roost is the original, and the Nexstand is recommended by Wirecutter because it is cheaper.

I put them side by side, and shake the table to see which one is more sturdy. The original wins by far. It is also lighter, smaller, and better designed in general, IIRC closing the lid is safer on the Roost. (The Roost I have is V3.)

I am not 100% certain Nexstand is a copycat of Roost though.

https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/reviews/best-laptop-stand...

I wanted to buy the Roost V3 as it seems a better product compared to the Nexstand K2, but went with the Nexstand as the Roost isn't a 5-times better product($90 vs $16)

I am heavily biased towards stability in this case, and would normally go for the cheaper one. If you put both side by side and shake the table you will see what I mean. I didn't bother to shot a video since I'm not into reviewing products, but may be I should have in this case.

Also when I buy them, it is $90 vs $45 so the difference is not like the 6-fold you see.

My Roost is the original (Kickstarter?) one which looks exactly like the Nextstand, as opposed to looking like the Roost v3.

Closing the lid is fairly safe on my old one cause it hits the rubber discs, but leaves a ~1cm gap. I'm generally pretty happy with it and I've had it the best part of a decade now; my only gripe is that it doesn't adjust as low as I'd like sometimes.

If I remember right, I paid something like £60-70 + Duty (to UK).

I'm confused about the Nexstand versioning, is this the same as the one you talk about? https://a.co/d/6NgJBms (just copied from the Amazon app)

Pretty sure the NextStand is a whitelabel product inspired by Roost. You can also buy them from TaoBao for a couple of dollars or AliExpress for around US$15 in the 11.11 sale [0]. Disclaimer: I haven't bought this particular listing, but am happy with my TaoBao one.

[0]: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001234630469.html

That's quite a price difference, I have the first gen Roost and I paid £60-70 if memory serves.

The new Roost v3 looks sturdier while the Nextstand looks like my OG Roost, which I note they've now discontinued looking at their site.

Anyone knows where to buy a ready-made low profile split keyboard like this?

I use two thinkpad keyboards and use one with each hand:

https://willfennel.com/posts/2022/10/26/cheap-ergonomic-keyb...

Ha, that is damn clever

Does that require any oddness when it comes to modifier keys like shift, ctl, cmd?

I experimented with double keyboards and thought it required the modifier key to be used on the same keyboard as the other keystroke, which basically raised the bar too high for me.

I expected those kinds of issues, but it actually works well!

So I can just do left-shift on the left keyboard, any right-side letter on the right keyboard, and it will be uppercase. Same with ctrl/alt, etc.

I can't promise you won't run into something that doesn't work, but I haven't found such a thing. On macOS my Karabiner keybindings also work without needing modifications to the config or whatever.

Great idea. So you have hands wide apart and canted outwards?

Thanks!

I keep my hands at shoulder-width and put them on the desk in a natural-feeling position. Wherever they land, that's where I put the keyboards.

Not sure if there is a better appraoch to place them in the best ergonomic position, but my wrist injury has gotten much better lately. That may just be a coincidence, but it feels like it's at least safe to say what I'm doing isn't making the injury worse.

I did something similar with two Apple Bluetooth keyboards. It worked perfectly for about a year while I waited for my UHK to arrive.

You can find bespoke assembly services with a lot of the vendors, it will usually run around 100$ extra so 300/400 for the keyboard which altogether isn't that bad compared to prebuilt ergos like the Ergodox.

These tend to be location specific but try to find regional resellers of the PCBs.

Also worth checking out r/mechmarket, i.e. https://redd.it/wvf9dz

There are also "left-side-only" keyboards

I bought mine on eBay, but I also have used https://boardsource.xyz for parts. They have assembled versions of both Lulu and Lily58 pro for sale, which are very similar to the sofle as well as some 40% options if you want even more minimalism. There's also the mainlander: https://www.zsa.io/moonlander/, but it's a heftier size and price tag.

Omg thank you. Having some massive pain in my shoulder (when externally rotating my arm), and I think it’s due to moving my arm out to get the trackpad/mouse.

I’m going to try this keyboard setup deal with the track pad in the center.

It is not necessarily better, since it probably requires you to bend your wrist. So you solve shoulder pain and get wrist pain in exchange. Also, you probably want to tent a keyboard to avoid forearm pronation [1] and then your trackpad hides between the keyboard halves unless you raise it.

(I am not sure there is a good solution outside avoiding the mouse by using a mouse layer or something like Shortcat on the Mac.)

[1] See e.g. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK72285/

I'm sure it's not for everyone, but I solved this in a unique way. I have a steeply tented split keyboard, and a trackpad on its own angled mount. The trackpad sits just past the number row on my right keyboard half.

I think the best thing you can do is resistance training exercise. Also going from a wide keyboard (full size Apple keyboard with number pad) to a narrow keyboard (narrow Apple Keyboard no number pad) worked for me. For a while I was doing the exercise in the video below and it helped me but I think just regular weight training can do wonders. I mostly just do shoulder, back, arms, and chest exercises and still haven’t had the pain I used to have. Hope you find something that works for you!

https://youtu.be/IdDqdrGMFBw

Yeah, lots of lifting in my life (3d/wk), and we do hit shoulders a lot. Problem is lots of impingement during some motions. And its been getting worse, not better.

Have a look at crossover symmetry, a lot of people swear by it for fixing shoulder and upper back mobility injuries/issues. I think it’s pretty extensively used in CrossFit and baseball communities. If you search for a copy of the exercise chart on Google images you can put a cheap version together yourself using standard resistance bands and a door belt.

https://crossoversymmetry.com

I was having similar issues a couple of years back. I'm now using 2 trackballs - Expert Mouse and Vertical trackball to distribute the movement. The pain hasn't come back and I enjoy having dual mice with some extra buttons.

I tried using the expert mouse between my ergodox splits, but the movement was even more awkward as I had to bring my elbow closer to my abdomen. YMMV.

Over the years, adding variety/variability has helped me more than many specific solutions. Seems obvious in hindsight given the R in RSI :D

You might enjoy mouse keys. It’s a QMK feature if you have a QMK board. There are a few adjustments you can make that make them very usable.

I had this problem and solved it by using trackpoint keyboards [0], sadly they're pretty pricey on eBay now though. There are newer models that are slightly worse keyboards, but are wireless.

I also haven't had trouble using a trackpad, centered relative to whatever monitor/screen I'm using.

Good luck!

[0]: https://sharktastica.co.uk/wiki?id=lenovo8855

I wonder if I'll have to also go custom for my next laptop if I want something with a 15" screen, no numberpad, touchpad with 3 physical buttons, boots to Linux, fully self serviceable or almost so.

I have hopes for Framework but they are still missing at least two of those points. My current laptop is missing the no numberpad point. I had to compromise and that was the least painful one.

With framework there is a good base to work with if you wanted only some components custom

My travel workstation consists of a SFF 13L PC, a Meta Quest 2 VR Headset, and the paired Logitech K830 keyboard. No battery but it all fits into a carryon roller at 8Kgs with cables and it's a true workstation as in high end GPU/CPU/RAM with multiple monitors. I call it an All-in-One-Office-on-Wheels-in-a-Box !

How does reading text (I presume) work for you using a VR headset? That was my main gripe with VR, I think that was the original Oculus Quest, in that I couldn't read text very well. I need glasses as well, only a minor thing, but enough to give me eyestrain / headaches when trying to read text.

The text clarity is not for everyone or every application but for me the difference gets lost in the experience. Running a wireless remote desktop client like Immersed or vSpatial, I will naturally resize the text on each window and have gotten used to moving my head vs moving my eyes around the space. I find there is a certain frame size that works for me to read scrolling, although it can be a unique experience seeing a full 2-page view at cinema size. I also use a lot of different screen layouts (size, distance, and placements) for different workloads. Basically, its "good enough" & supposed to be an improvement from Quest 1 from what I understand and the new Pro increases this even more.

You might want to check out NReal Air then - the headset is super lightweight, has adapters for prescription lenses, and works really well as an alternative to a monitor. Usual disclaimers, happy user etc.

I wonder what percentage of users use keyboards like this? Or is it just enthusiasts/modders?

Using one effectively categorizes you as an enthusiast.

The tricky thing about these kind of ergonomic ortholinear designs is that no one mass produces a cheap rubber dome version, so getting one is a somewhat serious financial investment, on top of it being a serious time/effort investment to get used to typing on one.

Traditional keyboards are what everyone already has kicking around; so that's what people get used to typing on.

Some pictures of this in use would be really helpful!

Do magnets have any influence on electronics?

They might make compass crazy in your smartphone. Also they cause funny pictures on tube displays. Other than that - I don't think it will have any influence.

Another place that magnets might affect is some high-end keyboard switches that use reed switches internally. But anybody affected already knows that his keyboard has these switches.

Whoa, great job! Your setup looks amazing.

magnets are the best.

And underrated, imho. I’m always delighted when I get something that uses magnets in a unique way: keeping a lid closed, providing alignment when attaching things, as a method of mounting unrelated things to each other, and even just to fidget with. Magnets are awesome.

The sunshade on a Tesla Model 3.

The case panels on Asus' Chakram X mouse (on way to a mostly tool less 15 second microswitch replacement).

I have an Apple cinema display that has magnets around the bezel and a stainless steel 1” wide ruler which accidentally ends up making a most satisfying physical iSight privacy barrier.

A hairy yet stylish keyboard.

https://thume.ca/assets/postassets/travelwork/case-open.jpeg

Didn't Eminem sing a song about the affliction of hairy palms?

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