Comment by edw519 | Hacker News Reader

Comment by edw519 | Hacker News Reader

Hmmm, algorithms to control elevator behavior.

How about algorithms to punish inefficient human behavior on elevators:

a. If people are on the elevator, it stops on a floor for a button that has been pressed, and no one gets off (as measured by weight), this means that someone must have pressed a button by accident. Switch from soft muzac to loud Rich Ashley music until the next stop.

b. If someone enters an elevator (as measured by weight) and within 3 seconds 2 buttons are pressed within 1 second of each other by the same finger (as determined by biometrics), that means some dumbass couldn't even press the correct button. Shock them on the second button press.

c. If the elevator is planning to discharge passengers (see a.), and people get on before people get off (as measured by weight), dump hot liquid on the rude entering passengers (those closest to the door).

d. Photograph anyone who summons the elevator by pressing the up or down button on their floor. If the elevator stops and no one gets on (as measured by weight), post their picture on elevatordouchebags.com.

e. If anyone farts on an elevator (as determined by sensors), identify them with a spotlight so that the sufferers don't have to guess who made them suffer.

f. If anyone gets on the elevator without a cart or baby carriage (as determined by sensors) and presses 1 floor down, go up 1 floor instead. When the door opens, flash a message, "Use the stairs next time!"

g. If too many people get on (as measured by weight), open door slightly and shake violently, knocking people out until the weight is under the limit.

Any other ideas?

Security mindset edw?

(a), (c) I press all buttons as I exit elevator.

(b) gummi bear attack or similar.

(d) Arrive carrying large cumbersome object "Heh, can you call the elevator for me?" (then run away)

(f) is easily reversible: should send people as far away as possible from their intended destination instead.

(g) throw dumbells into passing elevators.

Oh I have some. But I'd rather venture into traffic light algorithms at crossings. Quite simple and effective really:

If anyone presses the button more then once they'll get the same lights as the traffic. So green for the cars, green for them.

Why punish inefficient behavior? All of these seem slightly... inhumane ( :) I suspect that is the point). Really, though, what if the elevator were sped up if people started acting more efficiently (as determined by your multitude of sensors).

Instead of Jandy's suggestion:

>Am I crazy thinking it'd be a good idea to have an elevator which analyses its own usage patterns and adjusts its behaviour accordingly?

why not make the people adjust to the elevator's ideal behaviour?

EDIT: quote formatting

A good design works with human nature, not against it. If you want people to adjust to the elevator's ideal behavior, you have to subtly guide them to the right direction -- which is possible, but the way you asked it sounds along the lines of telling a whole office to start following arbitrary elevator efficiency rules.

That aside, I think Jandy was referring to a different scenario than what you're envisioning. If you have a skyscraper, and a trendy new bar opens on the 36th floor when the 36th floor use to be occupied by an office, but the elevator was programmed to rest at the 36th floor only at 9AM, lunch hours, and 5PM, telling the bar they have to make their clientele come and leave at those hours for "efficiency" will not go over well. Instead, having an elevator that notices no one's calling from the 36th floor before 8PM anymore doesn't sound like a bad idea.

> A good design works with human nature, not against it.

Although I agree, I was responding to the possibility of an elevator punishing behavior it didn't "like". Both what edw519 and I suggested would lead to "a whole office [...] following arbitrary elevator efficiency rules." It was intended to be a very tongue-in-cheek comment. I completely agree with both you and Jandy: a good elevator design would adjust itself to normal usage patterns and maximize efficiency within those constraints.

Clearly what is needed is an iElevator app for iPhone that teaches people how to make the most of their elevators.

> Rich Ashley music

FYI it's Rick Astley, not Rich Ashley.

There seems to be a lot of interest in minimizing the amount of time users need to wait to get onto the elevator, but this is not the only variable you can optimize. Elevators use a lot of power, and a lot of elevators (especially low traffic ones) are programmed to minimize the amount of power used. For example, the author's suggestion that elevators travel to the ground floor after every trip is highly inefficient and expensive.

I don't know alot about Physics, Engineering or Elevators, but I do know that there is some magical force at work in the world that once made an Apple fall on someone's head. Could we not utilise this force for the better and, perhaps even, recoup some energy?

I think elevators are usually counter-balanced so that the motor doesn't have to really lift anything except the occupants. Maybe not though ...

The are, with the effect (and I'm guessing intent) that an electrical/motor failure won't lead to the elevator plunging 20 stories and killing all occupants.

Software engineering could (and should) learn a few things from mechanical engineering. People have been saying that for decades, but it bears repeating...

Crash driven design. Design your software such that it can recover from a crash to a known state and continue. Make life so much simpler. Shutdown is just a matter of power off. Startup always does a recovery before starting.

There's a separate emergency brake system to prevent the elevator from falling, because you also need to be safe if the cables holding the elevator up break (this is actually the technology that lead to the first elevators). The counterweight is probably primarily just to reduce power/energy requirements.

Yeah, they have elevators that do that. Here's some marketing literature I found if you're interested: http://www.kone.com/countries/en_gb/products/elevators/konem...

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