Time to wake up to the facts about sleep | Hacker News Reader

Time to wake up to the facts about sleep

newscientist.com

34 pointsrobg18 comments

The best explanation I've heard for the three states of consciousness (NREM, REM and wakefulness), and one that the evidence in this article seems to support, is the default theory of sleep. This theory states (counterintuitively) that NREM is the default state of consciousness. However, for whatever reason an animal can't remain in NREM sleep forever (in humans, only 3-4 hours a day), so at that time it will switch to REM sleep. When it has some need (hunger, thirst, sex), it will wake up. When that need is satisfied, it returns to either NREM sleep or, failing that, REM sleep. REM sleep acts as a "holding state" that conserves energy and keeps the animal out of trouble.

I'm not sure if it's the accepted theory for sleep. I couldn't find references to it by name in journal articles, but perhaps it has another name. I learnt it from Biopsychology by Pinel.

You can't just ask people how much sleep they want. You have to test how they actually ARE, say by looking at white blood cell count, cortisol levels, memory retention, problem solving, and compare different baseline levels of sleep on such terms.

What I would like to know is what length of sleep a sedentary adult needs, whether that need N can be met by say (N' < N/2) at night and (N'' < N/2) during a day nap, and what (hopefully positive) affect can be had on reducing that need by say, exercise, diet, or sun exposure.

"... Far from our being chronically sleep-deprived, things have never been better. Compare today's sleeping conditions with those of a typical worker of 150 years ago, who toiled for 14 hours a day, six days a week, then went home to an impoverished, cold, damp, noisy house and shared a bed not only with the rest of the family but with bedbugs and fleas. ..."

Rest can be a weapon for Startups.

I haven't gotten 7 hours in a night in a long time. Apparently, I am in fact sleep-deprived.

Your body will be very sure to tell you whether you're tired or not.

Exactly. Wake up every day without using an alarm clock, and take a nap when you feel the need to.

Unless you have problems with your sleep, this will ensure you are in your best mental shape, when awake.

Or, like, somewhere to be at a certain time in the morning?

Right. It is a trade off. You either

- get along with the way most of the world is organized and wake up every day roughly at the same time, and work/think/decide/learn below your capacity; or

- You do what is best for your mind, at the cost of an eternal impedance mismatch with the rest of the world.

We can't have both upsides at the same time, unfortunately...

I'm skeptical of this approach. I've had very poor results with eating whenever I feel like it, and continuing until my body tells me to stop.

Obviously, my ancestors didn't evolve in an environment in which they had continual access to an abundant food supply. I can't say for certain, but I suspect they didn't have unlimited access to sleep either.

Eat slower.

No.

Oh, it works. Your satiation systems need some time to react. (At least that's the case in normal people.)

> I'm skeptical of this approach.

I can say it worked for me - I do not live like this, currently, but I remember fondly the feeling of waking up every day overflowing energy.

Try looking at this article - http://www.supermemo.com/articles/sleep.htm - specifically look for "free running sleep".

> I've had very poor results with eating whenever I feel like it, and continuing until my body tells me to stop.

Poor comparison - I would guess what you ate could not be really considered food. That's were maybe the problem lies. Try to eat only healthy food - no compromises, no sugar, no junk at all - it is unlikely you will have bad results, even if you eat until your body tells you to stop.

> I can't say for certain, but I suspect they didn't have unlimited access to sleep either.

I reject the premise of your question - that it would be better if we did what our ancestors did - but I will just point out that not having artificial light (or an alarm clock) means that on average they likely slept much more than we do today.

My premise isn't that we'd be better if we did exactly what our ancestors did. My premise is that evolution has shaped us to deal with environments of scarcity and hard work.

The issue of light is a big one. Even with all the lights off, some street light comes in through the windows.

I don't particularly want more sleep, but I would like to be less tired all the time; how does that factor into his question?

You'll need to consult some of the exercise posts for that. Take your pick.

Sleep is for the weak and the lazy. Fact. Sue me. Now let the downmodding commence you weaklings. More coffee....

If I talked like that, my mother would say that I needed a nap.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com