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Comment by DoingIsLearning | Hacker News Reader

That is the issue, all of this always comes down to cost and volume... and convenience.

Beeswax is perfectly acceptable but it costs more and I don't have the numbers but there is probably not enough bees in the world for all those starbucks cups.

The unpleasant truth that nobody wants to hear is that the only way to solve this is to ban all these disposables and use ceramic cups in the cafe or bring your own flask.

Everybody is an environmentalist until the environmental policy bothers their sense of convenience.

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There was a brief push for "keep cups" that seemed to have growing momentum ~2019, but that came to a halt with COVID and it seems isn't coming back any time soon.

I think the fundamental problem is plastic is cheap and companies have zero need to factor in the environmental costs. It's pointless to blame the consumer for buying something that they can afford, these products that do terrible damage to the environment need to be made unaffordable through taxes on the companies producing them.

Indeed perhaps my wording wasn't explicit but by "ban these disposables" I meant ban/regulate them out of the market through governmental policy.

Consumer sentiment alone will never make a significant impact.

You still get a discount for bringing your own cups to coffee shops, in the UK at least!

In the U.S. it's a per-store basis, and often they won't give you a discount unless you're using their own brand of bowl/mug/whatever which itself is often plastic and probably leeching chemicals into the food every time they refill it.

Leaching, technically, not leeching.

That and the Boogeyman of food safety liability.

God forbid you get a drop of spit on another thing, in the coffee shop where everyone spews drops of spit everywhere when they order anything at all

I think people are willing to hear it, and they probably know it already. It’s rather that companies aren’t willing to admit it because let’s be honest, if everyone had to bring their own cup to Starbucks, their sales would plummet.

We really need to stop blaming individual people for not doing their part and start blaming the system for having the wrong incentives.

> We really need to stop blaming individual people for not doing their part and start blaming the system for having the wrong incentives.

Why not both?

Yes, we definitely should fix the incentives wherever possible, because many people are just going to blindly follow the incentives. Those who don't will often get outcompeted by those who do.

On the other hand, if ethics does not mean "do not always blindly follow your incentives", I wonder what else it might possibly mean.

Yeah I sort of agree but badgering people for flying or buying a new car or something is I thin just a bit counterproductive because people probably won’t like it very much. It would be more productive to badger representatives to make better legislation.

It used to be that conspicuous consumption was frowned upon, I think that was probably a good thing.

Beeswax wouldn't work because it's melting point (around 140°F) is lower than the temperature coffee and tea are usually brewed and served at. It would just melt.

Subsidize it, let there be enough incentive to have more and more bees. I don't care about the cups, just want more bees.

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