Comment by potatolicious | Hacker News Reader

Comment by potatolicious | Hacker News Reader

Forget the "targeted at our kids!" or "$99 fishies!" thing for a moment, those are IMO red herrings (no pun intended).

The real issue with freemium is that I've yet to see a single example that's actually a game, as opposed to one armed bandits masquerading as games.

Of all the examples I've played, none are any fun. They are simply designed to trap you into a treadmill, cough up some dollars, and hopefully run this cycle a few times before you brain kicks in and realize you haven't had any fun the entire time.

I love mobile games. Angry Birds is a great time waster, Cut the Rope actually has a surprising amount of strategy behind it. Neither of these are freemium. Thank God. Hell, I don't even mind the idea of episodic gaming - I will gladly cough up a few dollars now and again to see the next chapter of a story or play a few more levels.

Maybe I'm just being an old curmudgeon, but there was a time when "gaming" actually meant "fun", not "psycho-manipulative casino trap".

The real issue with freemium is that I've yet to see a single example that's actually a game, as opposed to one armed bandits masquerading as games.

I consider those games to be a type of psychological malware that spreads through social obligations.

http://www.thepensiveprogrammer.com/2010/05/are-social-oblig...

Ack, accidental downvote. Sorry about that, I'd take it back if I could.

Don't worry, I upvoted it to offset your downvote.

"Neither of these are freemium."

Angry Birds is not freemium, but it bears mentioning that the free version of the game is an ad-infested hellpit. The popups are so frequent, and so intrusive, as to render most of the fun from the gameplay. (Alternatively, one can look at dodging popups as an added dimension of challenge! "Fling the blue bird at that green pig over there...but not too close to the red X, or you'll activate the Beanie Baby splash screen!").

The only reason I bring this up is to suggest that ad-supported gaming is not always a lovely alternative to the freemium model.

I, too, do not mind the pay-per-installment (episodic) model. And I find, albeit anecdotally, that developers who employ this model seldom abuse it. Nine times out of ten, when I've paid for an expansion pack, or installment #2, or what have you, I've received my money's worth. Perhaps there's a correlation between devs who use this model and devs who care a great deal about the content they're putting into the marketplace. I don't know. But, as a consumer and gamer, I have no problem whatsoever with paying for incremental content. (So long as that's what I'm paying for; i.e., I am not paying to unlock a feature or level that is fundamental to the basic gameplay).

> The real issue with freemium is that I've yet to see a single example that's actually a game, as opposed to one armed bandits masquerading as games.

Auditorium[0] is a fantastic freemium game: it's a particle flow-based puzzle game, the first 5 acts (5~7 puzzles each) are part of the free game (also available on the game's website[1]), a further 10 levels are available in 3 packs at 0.99 each.

[0] http://itunes.apple.com/fr/app/auditorium/id333186527?mt=8

[1] http://www.playauditorium.com/

That's generally not what most people would consider a freemium/free-to-play title though - I'd just call that a demo. Freemium games generally have a time based element or other similar resource that replenishes slowly, and can be circumvented or accelerated by paying money.

I'm not sure that's true, I just think that's the most prevalent/profitable type of freemium game–one based on accelerating constraints.

Give your service away for free, possibly ad supported but maybe not, acquire a lot of customers very efficiently through word of mouth, referral networks, organic search marketing, etc, then offer premium priced value added services or an enhanced version of your service to your customer base.

http://www.avc.com/a_vc/2006/03/the_freemium_bu.html

Team Fortress 2. You only pay for vanity items, and they don't provide any gameplay advantage whatsoever.

I don't think I'd consider Team Fortress 2 a freemium game, even though it is free and you can buy hats in it. The game wasn't originally released or designed with "freemium" in mind, it just happened to fall into that model later in life after the developer had wrung most of the available retail money from the title.

If TF3 launches for free then maybe that will be a counterpoint, but I don't think TF2 really is one.

One of my favorite phone games is a puzzler called Piczle Lines. The core puzzle set is free, and you pay for additional sets. It's successful, mentally engaging, and fun as hell.

Come to think of it, the positive examples are mostly just patching over a business model constraint: that the App Store doesn't have a way to offer a demo, essentially pushing game creators into either Freemium or split Ad/Pro versions.

That seems like a reasonable model; sort of a return to what some 90s games did, where you got Episode 1 of Doom free, and could pay to get another two episodes.

Wind Up Knight is a great, yet very hard platformer, and one of the best mobile games I've played.

It keeps offering you to buy your way into unlockable progress, instead of breaking your fingers on the game.

https://market.android.com/details?id=com.robotinvader.knigh...

I admit, I haven't played it, but I hate games with that concept. "Pay to not play," I call it.

I'm fine with paying to unlock more content - i.e. paying for more fun, but paying you so I don't have to spend time playing your game? Not cool.

I actually think that it's better than the consumer is always right alternative, where games are made very easy, as to not frustrate paying costumers. So you get "pay to not play" for everybody. Here only those who pay don't play, and those who don't pay, play.

It's a common complaint -- games used to be harder. Wind Up Knight isn't impossible: I made good steady progress in it, but it is very hard (I dare say Megaman hard.)

>The real issue with freemium is that I've yet to see a single example that's actually a game, as opposed to one armed bandits masquerading as games.

Today heard on NPR something along the lines that Zinga IPO valuation is 7-10B, and they successfully sell virtual goods inside their games like chainsaws in the Mafia wars. That somehow struck me that i'm possibly missing some important change happening in the world as it sounds that people do really buy the chainsaws! (note: i did my share of Doom and i read Godfather - in my view it is completely different chainsaw (or cutting tools in general) applications)

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