Launch HN: Shimmer (YC S21) – ADHD coaching for adults | Hacker News Reader

Launch HN: Shimmer (YC S21) – ADHD coaching for adults

127 pointschristalwang254 comments

Hi, I’m Chris, one of the co-founders of Shimmer (https://shimmer.care). We offer one-to-one ADHD Coaching for adults. It was born out of my own roller coaster of a journey navigating my ADHD diagnosis.

Getting diagnosed with ADHD as an adult is complicated—equally heartbreaking and liberating. You literally need to rewrite your whole life narrative in light of this new realization. The process currently is super confusing and expensive (medications, therapy, coaching, tools, apps, etc.) and I just wished someone would guide me through it. Someone to personalize things for me, ask me good questions, and encourage me when I was feeling down.

My experience was the basis for what Shimmer is today. We’re creating an ADHD coaching service that is actually affordable (5-10X cheaper than traditional ADHD coaching, in fact!), personalized to your life (because what works for me may not work for you), and focused on action instead of theory (because we’re not short of knowledge—we just aren’t doing it!).

Our service is fit for ADHD brains. We merge the best worlds of telehealth (e.g. therapy/coaching sessions) and asynchronous apps (e.g. Headspace, Noom) to create a solid combo of human accountability and app-based support. You get matched with an ADHD-specialized coach, meet weekly in focused video/audio sessions where you set weekly goals, and over time, bit-by-bit start building a new day-to-day that supports your goals: new routines, systems, and skills.

Our program is rooted in science-backed methodologies including Health & Wellness Coaching, Cognitive Behavioral Coaching (CBC/CBT), Acceptance Commitment Training (ACT), positive psychology, and solution-focused coaching. The way we deliver it, however, is less rigid and more experimental. In each 15-min session and in the asynchronous portions, you’ll draw on collective ADHD community knowledge to work with one thing a week in your life that you’d like to improve on. Your coach will support you via text access (in-app) and by seeing and reacting to your weekly “Actions”.

In terms of the app itself, there are 3 main components: (1) a daily/weekly simple check-list where you track your coaching tasks, checking them off (automatically pings your coach) and reflecting on your progress in-app, (2) a resource hub where you’ll find short, bite-sized content in service of your coaching journey, not standalone education to just “read up on”, and (3) your personalized chat with your coach where they’ll guide you through the journey—checking in on your completed/in-completed tasks, giving you feedback, and sending you resources.

On the back end, our coaches have web and mobile apps that are designed to save them time and cognitive effort, so that they can focus on coaching. Simple things like “scheduled sends” and a prioritized message list are included to help them manage a large case load with less effort.

It’s $99/mo. for 15-min weekly “bite-sized” sessions, or $349/mo. for 45-min “similar-to-traditional” coaching sessions. Traditional coaching can run $400-700+/mo. (up to the thousands depending on the coach). We also reserve a portion of our memberships for those with financial need, on a case by case basis.

If you have ADHD (or think you do), we’d love for you to check out our platform and give us critical feedback (or positive reinforcement!). It’s a super streamlined and ADHD-friendly signup process and in honor of our launch and celebration of October being ADHD Awareness Month, the first month is 40% off (offer until Nov 12).

I invite the greater Hacker News community to share any experiences you have with ADHD & navigating care, and am always open to scheduling a 1:1 call to learn more!

View on HN

Oh look: another service that thinks ADHD is an inability to do scheduling or some other bullshit. ADHD is literally a neurological disorder that effects dopamine in the brain. It reduces wakefulness, concentration, the ability to filter out distractions, and the ability to motivate yourself. A software solution won't fix this. What ADHD people need isn't a normie couch to tell them to 'prioritize' differently or a bunch of shitty checkboxes to tick off. They need a licensed psychiatrist to prescribe stimulants which are effective for treating up to 85% of suffers. This service is exploitative, idiotic, uninformed, and deeming. I don't know why YC want anything to do with this. Maybe they thought people with ADHD were desperate marks and a startup could be build around exploiting them. Fuck off with that bullshit. You should be ashamed.

Wooooaah. I don't know about this service, but I feel there would be a lot of value in having a person to bounce things off in real time / help with unblocking when things get challenging. Would that also be complete bullshit? Are prescribed stimulants the only thing that's not bullshit?

Hire a virtual assistant, not a virtual therapist. This virtual therapist costs $99 for 60 minutes of assistance. 15 minutes a week is too little time to bounce ideas off of someone. But you can buy 5-10 hours of virtual assistance with that money, or more.

A service that provides virtual assistance for ADHD ppl - without the veneer of medical treatment to raise prices - could be a lot more affordable and helpful in helping ppl complete tasks they're struggling with, bounce ideas and plans back and forth, and help with other executive tasks.

This is an assistance vs treatment approach. ADHD doesn't have to be seen as a disease you treat medically - it can be seen as a perfectly natural way of being that requires some assistance, but also provides special abilities.

Have you tried the VA strategy yourself? I don't think it's that simple to get a VA to help. I have used a lot of VAs over the years and there is a significant time cost for me in training them up to help. It's not necessarily a quick win and I have found it very frustrating when they don't understand my needs. Delegating boring work to specialists absolutely works well and I do this a lot.

It would be cool if there were VAs that were trained in how best to help people with ADHD. I would see that as being supplementary to Shimmer. I use Shimmer myself and find it useful in coming up with strategies that work for me.

Do you have any recommendations on VA services? Thank you

Thanks for your response + clearly you have a strong understanding of ADHD as a neurodevelopmental condition (and the stats around medication's efficacy!). Medication is by far the most effective treatment method for ADHD at 80%+, which is incredibly astounding given most mental health & brain disorders don't have such an effective treatment method.

We definitely understand that a software solution will by no means "fix" ADHD. It's an extremely complex condition layered on to extremely complex & individual human beings and we as a society have lots of work to do with education, awareness, stigma, medication, and other behavioral solutions (including coaching). We advocate for a mixed method that may include multiple of the above, potentially even all through experimentation, to find what works best for you uniquely.

Many of our members and community members either (1) are already on medication and use coaching to build skills & systems to further improve their lives, or (2) for whatever reason aren't able or want to be on medication [stigma, cultural barriers, can't be on because of other medications for co-occuring conditions, and many other reasons, or simply not wanting to] and use coaching either on it's own or with therapy/other modalities of care. Other benefits of coaching involve support & acceptance from someone who understands, and accountability to follow through on certain commitments in life.

We have built the service up with much care & love, alongside the ADHD community, clinicians, and ADHD experts & coaches, but are always open to more specific feedback on how we can improve. Our inbox is always open: hi@shimmer.care

I haven’t looked closely at your product but there was a similar one that launched a few months ago on HN and it was almost a joke the way they launched it.

Almost every single one of their techniques and incentives is were bound to fail exactly if someone had ADHD.

Like they had a 14 day trial where you had to remember to keep launching the app every day and things like that.

Guess what, someone with ADD would forget to launch the app, and definitely blow through a silly 14 day trial before they could even realize any value. It showed me exactly how clueless they were about their audience.

> definitely blow through a silly 14 day trial before they could even realize any value.

Even worse: the trial was probably sign up with card before you buy and many people with ADHD will still be _paying_ for the service long after the trial ran out...

> It showed me exactly how clueless they were about their audience.

It sounds like a grift that knew _exactly_ who their audience was...

[disclaimer: I didn't check which service you are talking about, so this may not be the case. This does seem to be a trope, however.]

Inflow: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28877610

My friend it is you who should consider being ashamed. Suggesting stimulants as the first line of treatment rather than cardiovascular exercise, good sleep, and a healthier relationship with food is at best dismissive of the body of modern research and at worst introduction of a dangerous 'just pop a pill' crutch. Stimulants are not at all the only way out of the ouroboros of adhd symptoms making today hard and tomorrow too.

I don't disagree that things like this can be exploitative and if it happens even once then I agree with the 'you should be ashamed' thesis statement. You're treating the solution as a very black and white thing in this comment of yours though and the vitriol with which you wrote it left me with the impression that pushback is warranted.

> Suggesting stimulants as the first line of treatment rather than cardiovascular exercise, good sleep, and a healthier relationship with food is at best dismissive of the body of modern research and at worst introduction of a dangerous 'just pop a pill' crutch.

Literally none of this is true. The research overwhelmingly shows that stimulant medication is the most effective treatment for ADHD, and second place isn't even close. Show me a single paper that shows that "good sleep" is a more effective treatment for ADHD than medication and I'll eat my shoe.

ADHD and stimulants are codefined. That doesn't prove anything, it's a circular definition.

The people who got exercise, slept well and kept meaning in their life avoided falling down the hole. They aren't in the study in the first place.

> The people who got exercise, slept well and kept meaning in their life avoided falling down the hole. They aren't in the study in the first place.

Horseshit.

I have a sleep tracker and an exercise tracker that tell me I get enough of both and I’ve plenty of meaning in my life. None of those things helped nearly as much as adderall.

My problem with this comment is that the other argument is well demonstrated with a litany of scientific literature - whereas this argument is at best interpretation unprovable.

*If you are talking about the exercise and diet fixes adhd research...A litany of scientific literature with studies that closely follow and ensure compliance with protocol? Or perhaps incorrectly select cohorts because those with adhd are not going to be compliant without being cornered and forced?

*HN is hard to follow. Do you mean "research supports stimulant first" or "research on people who self identify with adhd and are fitness nuts shows"

This is somewhat offensive.

> The people who got exercise, slept well and kept meaning in their life avoided falling down the hole. They aren't in the study in the first place.

The people who kept up with a well planned exercise routine, slept well instead of trying to catch up with work at 2am in a mad rush, and had meaning in their life because they didn't push their friends away with uncontrolled emotional outbursts? Perhaps they aren't in the study because they don't have ADHD?

Perhaps those also absent from the study are those with ADHD, but whose family accepted and nurtured it instead of projecting onto them and never listening. Those people don't usually need to mask and don't end up mentally underdeveloped because the people entrusted with their care actually cared about them, rather than trying to "mold" them into something they're not.

Seriously, why does ADHD and other neurodivergent "treatment" always fail to listen to the afflicted? It's ableist and othering, and it's fucking disgusting.

My family loves and accepts me and my sons. They still push the same bullshit here. You can't jog your way out of adhd and "you just lack discipline" is literally "telling a woman they deserve it for looking like a slut" level of being totally off the mark and clueless. I even have a significant amount of multi-discipline training and actual professional research under my belt and they ignore me and the experts I seek for help.

They almost assuredly do not have adhd. Please folks, stop pushing this crap. Exercise and diet all require expenditure of executive function you don't have. Barkley explains it best. Yes, physical activity and diet improve your executive function like properly inflating your tires improve your gas mileage. At the end of the day you have a physiological disorder that needs a coordinated treatment of both stimulants and cognitive behavioral therapy along with compassionate people surrounding you. Start with your GP and if you hear the "muh, you don't need drugs" "just get more discipline" bullshit, find another gp and make sure they help you get a referral to an adhd expert who knows what executive function disorder means.

Thanks for this, you're being very evenhanded. Lifestyle changed sustained over time is the way to go, any remaining bad feelings can be taken as signals or just part of life. Pills aren't magic.

Spoken as someone who never had to deal with decades of prolonged abuse for the crime of not having enough dopamine

ADHD meds are suggested as a first line treatment above all of those other things because they are more effective than all those things, like several times as effective, and are well tolerated and inexpensive.

It is that fact which plays into why this treatment is exploitative. You should only ever be trying something like this after exhausting a number of more effective options. This program is marketing itself as for people who AREN'T EVEN DIAGNOSED with ADHD and pretending this is somehow an "evidence-based" approach.

Definitely agree ADHD medication has been proven to be most effective. Thank you for this comment!

Most of members use coaching as a tool in conjunction with medication or other forms of treatment. Our service is not marketed as treatment, but simply another tool (for guidance, support, accountability, skill discovery) you use like to do lists, education blogs, body doubling, etc.

Our methods, on the other hand, stand on the shoulders of giants and are based on evidence-based approaches and methods. We put a lot of effort & care to conferring with the medical/clinical, coaching, and other helping professions to ensure what we're building is based on evidence-based approaches. Happy to share more over if helpful! hi@shimmer.care

I agree their phrasing could have been better. However in my country it typically takes 1-2 years to get a diagnosis and start treatment. It's even a few months to a year if you go private.

I can see this sort of thing being at least a stop-gap, and something that might help while someone's waiting to get access to the better treatment.

Listen, if you are people reading this with adhd, don't listen to me, don't listen to this guy, don't listen to OP. Find an expert in adhd. Make sure they understand what executive function disorder means. Listen to them. Please don't suffer with this. It's not your fault.

It's not a normie coach. I use this service and my coach has ADHD herself (plus some other traits). I've been using it for 3 weeks and have found it very useful. I think you dismiss the role of metacognition. There are strategies that work for my brain, they're just different to what works for most people. I have found it very useful and have recommended it to other people.

I am curious, how do you explain the chasm in ADHD diagnosis between the US and Europe (or anywhere else really)? Surely if it's a purely neurological disorder, it should be somewhat "uniformly" detected across the globe, no?

Being purely neurological would strongly suggest uniform distribution of the disorder _itself_ — but absent a purely neurobiological _test_ for those symptoms, uniform distribution wouldn’t imply uniform detection.

“ADHD is primarily a neurological disorder” and “differences in ADHD diagnosis rates are primarily cultural” are not incompatible statements.

Europe maybe doesn't hire beautiful people to push drugs on prescribing doctors? Maybe Europe has better surveillance?

Stimulants don't work for everyone. Or like for me, they stop working after some time.

This is an unfortunate truth. The physiology of how methylphenidate and dextroamphetamine work in the mid brain allows the brain to "correct" for the solution, sadly. You will need to work with experts to properly manage your medicines. I have used ritalin/Concerta and tried Strattera, catapres, SSRIs, etc. Only stimulants worked. The hardest part is that the government forces you to not use drug holidays--Yay government....so helpful.

Even IF - even IF this service is effective for people with ADHD - how does this service deal with the problem of people believing they have ADHD when they actually have another problem which presents similarly?

Literally read their post, it's for if:

>If you have ADHD (or think you do)

Wow that's great and not exploitative at all. A service to treat a medical condition that people merely THINK they have. Don't suppose anybody is going to get a refund if they don't actually have ADHD.

Thanks for your comment.

This definitely is not treatment nor therapy/medication, just to clarify. We view ourselves as 1 potential piece of your greater solution to ADHD (or wanting better executive function skills in general). Same as a to-do list is helpful for ADHD, as is a body doubling tool. These services don't treat ADHD, simply may be of help!

Stop scamming people with your predatory bullshit. You should be ashamed of yourself. We are not your cash cow, fuck off.

This is what I would've thought not even a year ago.

Having tried pretty much all the stimulants (oh DNMs how I love you) and currently taking one, I almost can't believe I have to say medication alone is not enough.

Yup. You will also need to externalise your executive function and working memory. Get a fitbit to buzz for all alarms so that you don't miss meetings, etc because you silenced your phone and turned off buzz.

I wanted to say you need to create new habits and a schedule. With medication you can (finally) do it, but you simply don't know how. You can self-help, but external help would work much better.

Don't trust habits. Anything that contributes to decision fatigue will be amplified in those afflicted with ADHD. Use paper plates and cups. Lay out all of your clothes for the week on off days. Rely on your phone to remind you and have a linked backup--smart watch. You are going to hit decision fatigue way faster than neurotypical people so do everything you can while medicated to reserve your decision making--executive function gas tank.

My wife was diagnosed several years ago at our 3rd marriage counselor. We found a physician that 100% believes in a medication based solution, went through 4-5 different medications to find the right one for her, and she's successful with Vyvanse. Mostly.

Vyvance is time release. She takes it in the morning and it wears off by the time she gets home. The behaviors at home that don't work well are still there but her stress level is way down now that she has a good handle on work. Good for her, better but not good for the kids and I.

I wouldn't say she needs anything like counseling because there isn't a problem with perception or emotional dysfunction. A "coach" on the other hand could help her and us quite a bit, if she had someone to talk to about "life". Maybe they could point out she's gone into work for the last 3 weekends and for this upcoming one she can take Saturday completely for herself to decompress, then do something meaningful and fun with her family on Sunday. That would make her feel a lot better and the the kids and I too.

The problem is the person with ADHD being willing to have some measure of accountability. The life coach needs to do that part expertly. In our case, it really does need to be someone else because I can say the same thing as a life coach and in the exact same way, but because I am "the husband" my wife's guilt ramps up and so does negative self talk and some anger. Even when I try to help kindly and thoughtfully she can become defiant or dismissive. Because I'm "the husband". I have tried stepping and helping her have a relax day followed by a family day but its exhausting as I'm the only adult doing it. Its a bit of a trap too because it starts to change our relationship to the dreaded parent/child dynamic. Although I tend to think of it as care giver and care needer. ADHD aside, she needs to own what she does or does not do because she is an intelligent capable adult. But she has to figure out how to do it without me stepping in all the time.

So while medication ought to be the first step for help, it is also probably the right thing to supplement with some kind of coaching, even if it is infrequent or done with a light touch. Ideally self reflection could eliminate the need for coaching but it's not a task that elevates dopamine levels in the executive function of the brain. Meaning, someone with ADHD is probably not drawn to or motivated to do it on their own. It's more likely involving an unbiased 3rd party is actually helpful.

ADHD is not a bad thing and I really don't want to call it a dysfunction. I'm in the neurodivergent camp. When her hyper focus kicks in whatever she is doing is done to the best degree anything like that can be done. There's another member of the family that has ADHD that is also competitive. When we do something together and there is the mere possibility of being competitive, their hyper focus kicks in and I can't keep up with them. In software development, an engineer with ADHD can out think and out code me by a noticeable distance if their hyper focus kicks in. Their problem isn't performing, it's being in control of when they perform and on what tasks. They make great pinch hitters by the way. Want a production issue fixed quickly? Grab the ADHD dev in a group meeting where they share their screen. Me though, I cave. I fold. Too much pressure and I don't mind admitting it. I'm too much of an empath. I just don't see ADHD as a dysfunction because its obvious that its a rebalancing of strengths and weaknesses. They'll get their electricity shut off by forgetting to pay the bill but they'll also decorate the best looking wedding cake when it's late and the decorator calls in sick.

I want to also mention, we have a friend that hasn't been diagnosed but swears he has ADHD. I can see that might be true but he also is an avid runner. The physical and mental exercise of running probably helps him manage well enough that he doesn't need medication. And I think that suggests that ADHD is not a switch where you have it or you don't, more that it is a spectrum. There are probably people that have a low level of ADHD and have figured out life just works better if they do certain things, like drinking coffee regularly and running.

edit: spelled Vyvanse wrong

You are right that ADHD is a true neurological disorder that responds well to medication, but on everything else your are horrifyingly wrong. Medication alone is not a panacea for many people with ADHD and is most effective when coupled with better self understanding, self acceptance, and adoption of an ADHD-optimized lifestyle.

I have ADHD, my kids have ADHD, and most of my friends have ADHD. Was on Vyvanse for 5 years, then off for 6, and I just recently started taking it again.

During my first 5 years on Vyvance, I had my first experience of what was truly possible for me and it changed my life.

Then, triggered by unrelated health issues and unhappiness with side effects, but mainly because I wanted to run the experiment of seeing how far I could get without meds, I stopped for 6 years. I focussed on lifestyle, structure, health, exercise, nutrition, meditation, And it was pretty good, much better than before my diagnosis.

Then as my life moved forward it presented me with increasing responsibility and challenge, and this year I decided to go back on meds. Of course it was immediately obvious that meds improve my ability to focus and my general self-regulation to a level not possible through healthy lifestyle and earnest intentions. But… now I am getting a multiplier effect of an ADHD-optimized lifestyle working together with my medication, and its amazing. I'm taking a lower dose than before, but sustaining a better level of productivity and mental health.

I have seen in myself and others where meds on their own have failed because their benefits were squandered by a careless lifestyle. Now I get to see how this plays out with my kids, And guess what? Meds are essential, but they aren't enough. The hard part is changing their attitudes, habits and lifestyle.

Thank you for sharing your personal experience.

The cliche "pills don't teach skills".

A mix of (or at least experimenting with) meds, skills, routines, potentially therapy... all good starting points but the key is to figure out what works for you. And we'll take all the help we can get! Each neurodiverse person is different and will likely respond to a different mix of solutions.

Your correct. But some of us can’t tolerate the medication.

I hear you. I had very bad reactions to some of the medicine used for adhd. SSRIs, Strattera, catapres/clonidine. And I refuse to use amphetamines although my sister has success with them.

I work with a psych and take the stimulants, and still struggle. Medication is only half the battle. I would recommend checking out Andrew Huberman's podcast episode on ADHD. Basically, as I understand, the medication "smooths out" the pathways that are "blocked" in the dopamine system. Once medicated, I think a treatment plan like this would be very helpful for me and for others.

Have you watched Dr. Russell Barkleys series? https://youtu.be/sPFmKu2S5XY. I have actually done professional research into executive function and working memory--not a PhD but have one masters and nearly through another. His explanation lines up with the physiological psychology that I have learned.

Thank you, will check this out!

Thank you for sharing!

I've done these 2 of Russell Barkley's free courses: http://www.continuingedcourses.net/active/courses/course109.... http://www.continuingedcourses.net/active/courses/course109....

I took notes on the former (here: https://shimmercare.notion.site/ADHD-in-Adults-Diagnosis-Imp...) but didn't get around to the latter.

Exactly my thoughts too. This reads as yet another scam product targeting ADHD folks, just like Inflow and similar.

I would very much like such 'entrepreneurs' to stop trying to profit from my disability. If they had something actually useful to sell, they'd engage with health service providers. Instead they try to fool the individual with promises of success and happiness.

It's disgusting and predatory, and sours me even more towards the VC types that think this is a worthwhile type of business to invest in.

Thank you for your comment.

I am the 'entrepreneur' in question here (who also uses our ADHD coaching), and definitely do not want to profit from anyone's disability. I hope that comes through at some level! We are definitely in the process of engaging with health service providers but the unfortunate nature here is to get something innovative and tech-enabled out there, we first need to prove that it is helpful to folks (which is our mission anyway! By providing at-cost services while compensating our coaches, our main goal right now is to prove that we can help people with ADHD, like me!)

The also unfortunate reality is that there aren't enough therapists out there with ADHD specialization, especially once you filter for an individual's state/insurance. We know we're not the be all end all, but hopefully a useful stop to help gain some skills and routines for people with ADHD.

Totally agree on bullshit detector event alarm.

Why do you describe your product as "coaching", and not "therapy"? Is this a marketing decision because of a perceived stigma around the term "therapy"? (The re-branding of CBT/ACT to "coaching" and "training" instead of "therapy" strikes me as odd, I don't understand the emphasis on avoiding the term.)

Will your company be accepting medical insurance? $350/mo (~$90/session) is roughly half of what billed-to-insurance therapy costs have looked like for me ($150-200 per weekly session), which could make this a competitive option for people who are uninsured. However, with insurance I've usually paid $25-40/session out of pocket.

The closest sister discipline our coaches practice is Health & Wellness coaching, but we also draw on the foundations of positive psychology, CBT, etc. depending on the member's situation. The practices of coaching & therapy, although they have some overlap, are largely different in both practice and outcomes. For example, in the context of ADHD, coaching is very focused on future-oriented outcomes and tactic-oriented skills, whereas therapy is often focused on disentangling thoughts, unpacking trauma, etc. Also, coaching is aimed at taking a person upwards to their goals, and you don't necessarily need a diagnosis of any sort to be here. I may have rambled a bit, but the bottom line is, we don't practice therapy on our platform.

Right now coaching is not covered under most insurance plans, unfortunately. Some members have been able to work with their employer benefits to get Shimmer covered but it's definitely a case by case basis right now. However, we try our best to work with our members (we have a needs-based financial aid package and have something in the works that's a bit bigger than this!) where we can!

> For example, in the context of ADHD, coaching is very focused on future-oriented outcomes and tactic-oriented skills, whereas therapy is often focused on disentangling thoughts, unpacking trauma, etc

Respectfully, in my experience therapy is very focused on outcomes and skills. (A very short list of examples: CBT's thought records, DBT's DEAR MAN, ACT's defusion.)

Is the distinction pedantic, or does it have more to do with the qualifications or certifications the provider holds?

Firstly, it’s a pleasure to meet someone as informed in the current debates across the helping professions as you are.

As a coaching psychologist and a member of Shimmer team, I should firstly confirm that we work in close alliance with the other helping professions in the clinical and psychotherapeutic space and we understand each other’s limitations.

And while each of the helping professions pay attention to the outcomes and skills, ADHD coaching we do at Shimmer is characterised by the relentless focus on the future vision, goals and tactics to help the ADHD folk get there. Think regular coaching supercharged by the power of prospective psychology, coaching psychology, health psychology and neuro-developmental perspectives.

We all stand on the shoulders of helping professions’ giants, but our focal areas are different. And considering the time limits involved in helping, the focal areas do matter.

Let me be more direct: what qualifications do your coaches hold?

Thank you for the clarification.

Our coaches fall in 1 of 2 categories: (1) Coaching or MH professional credentials (ICF, Therapists, Psychiatrists) or (2) Masters-level or equivalent of psychology- or ADHD- related field along with extensive hours of client-facing facilitation & coaching work.

100% of our coaches fall into 1 of the above 2 categories.

From their website: We’re looking for licensed coaches (ICF or NBHWC preferred) or licensed mental health professionals (e.g., PhD, PsyD, LCSW, LMFT, etc.) specializing in ADHD.

Looks like they accept people with coaching licenses (this often means less than 200 hours of training).

My understanding is that coaches are typically qualified to work with people who don't have acute mental health needs. For example a coach might help someone figure out how to eat healthier, but wouldn't be qualified to treat an eating disorder.

Yes! Thank you for that distinction. Exactly. Our coaches are not treating ADHD as a medical condition (which is why they don't diagnose or prescribe) but they are helping people with ADHD gain skills, build systems, etc. to help manage their ADHD symptoms.

The reality is there are often co-occuring conditions in the mix here so we often either refer out or ensure our clients are also working with a therapist on other mental health challenges / issues like eating disorders, OCD, anxiety, and depression.

Yes

> However, with insurance I've usually paid $25-40/session out of pocket.

This is what insured people need to keep in mind.

Always look up the actual cost estimation through your insurer's website first. It's not uncommon for health insurance at tech companies to have therapy options that come out to $20-30/session. Worth checking first!

Also, note that the service offered here is explicitly "coaching" and not "therapy" as you'd receive from licensed therapists through your insurance.

Preexisting conditions was torture. I spent way more than I should for therapy and medicine because of it. Look. If aca ever gets repealed, we need to require insurance to be insurance and have the carrier under which you were diagnosed indemnify you. Period.

I heard of coaching in relation to ADHD over a decade ago, it's not something they invented.

I don't know anything about Shimmer, so I don't know how well they fit the mold, but as I understand ADHD Coaching: The general idea is that the coaches are there to supplement therapy and/or drugs with practical "in the weeds" advice. A Therapist would worry about making you feel better, and might point you in the direction of some resources to learn practical coping skills. A coach is one of the resources to help you learn practical skills.

Yeah, my psych makes sure the meds aren't causing problems and does simple mental wellness checks before writing new scripts.

My coach gave me strategies to fit my life. Usually in the form of me presenting a problem, and getting several tricks to try.

I don't think the meds or the coaching would help in isolation. I don't do the coaching now unless I come across a new problem. I have my book of trivks and triggers that remind me to reach for them.

Thanks for sharing your experience, and glad that coaching has given you some strategies that work for you!

When you say book of tricks and triggers, do you mean a physical book? Curious how other folks hold on to their learnings etc.!

The problems/tactics I have written down in my notebook. The triggers are just repetition with lots of failures. Its like chaining the behavior of walking into a conference room to checking my calendar for my next thing. Or when I feel overwhelmed I check the section on prioritizing, scheduling, delegating, and dropping tasks.

Smartphones and smart watches are your friend. Noise canceling headphones come in a close second. You need to remember while unmedicated to take your medicine so an obnoxious, hard to ignore medical alarm is a good tool.

You need to explicitly request cognitive behavioral therapy alongside medical management. You might need to look for a psychiatrist that understands that as a component of ADHD management.

Coaching probably does not require part 21 compliance. It's like "this is not intended to treat any disorder..." disclaimers on supplements. FDA compliance is exhausting and very difficult/expensive. They might have gone through it. Don't know.

Im really surprised to see the intense skepticism here. As someone who is just stumbling into this world and studying ADHD as an otherwise successful adult, Chris’ description (and $99 price frankly) resonated with me and made me think I might be in the target market. Even one of his responses to someone thanking someone for feedback is being downvoted. Is there a connotation of ADHD being associated with snake-oil or scams that I’m not familiar with?

(Meta-comment questions aside, congrats on the launch!)

Hi! Chris(tal) here (also, I'm a woman.. she/her, haha. I get that a lot using my nickname)

Unfortunately, yes. There are many businesses that take advantage of not only people with ADHD but people in other vulnerable communities (e.g. other neurological conditions and mental illnesses). I've been in this space for a long time since I started with my Eating Disorder amongst other things in my teenage years.

Of course, as most of you have seen, there's a lot of splash currently in the news especially in the ADHD space so I completely understand the skepticism.

Quite honestly it's not easy for me to have my story out vulnerably in the open and linked to our business but for me it's worth it! So I really appreciate your positive feedback, it goes a long way!

Ah, that is clarifying. (And oh! Thanks for the gender correction. I didn’t read your username)

I can imagine that starting a mental health business that hits close to home can feel more vulnerable than starting a business is already, so kudos.

I really appreciate this. Thank you!

After clicking around, here’s something I wanted to mention: You mentioned in your post that if you have ADHD or “think you do”, you encourage people to check it out. I’m in the camp of, “I probably don’t have ADHD, but boy, some of those self-diagnosis survey questions hit close to home, and I wish they didn’t, so this might be worth looking into whether I have ADHD or not.” I understand that you aren’t in a position to offer diagnosis, but I found myself looking for something in your FAQ or description that spoke to me. I don’t know what it would say to me that wouldn’t sound like it’s trying to convince me i have ADHD, but maybe how to investigate further, or how to know whether to give your service a shot? I might not have found a statement like that because I’m not in your target market, and I’m cool with that too. There is also a fear I have (and that I’ve observed in others) of being one of “those people” who claim they have a problem and go to the doctor and fear they’ll discover nothing is wrong. So it was reassuring when you said, “or think you do” in your pitch, and I think I was looking for the same reassurance/guidance from the website.

I hope that is helpful.

Definitely helpful, thank you for the thoughtful perspetive. I like this: "how to investigate further, or how to know whether to give your service a shot?"

For now... this is a good self test from WHO: https://www.shimmer.care/adhdtest

I'm also glad you felt reassured!

> Is there a connotation of ADHD being associated with snake-oil or scams that I’m not familiar with?

Yes. Well, not really snake-oil, but this spaces is definitely associated with low-effort pill mills and broken marketing promises.

Therapy is hard. Doing it at scale is nearly impossible. Doing it at scale at a price point consumers expect is literally impossible. As a result, you end up with a bunch of "mental health" "tech" companies that are making big promises, but essentially just putting their patients through checkboxes.

Same. As someone well off with inattentive type ADHD, 99$ is money I wouldn't mind throwing away for a shot at getting better with the daily issues I face. And then if it works progressing to something more expensive is also not a problem.

In my case the issue is that despite having a growth mindset for learning pretty much anything, in the case of ADHD stuff I've been trying for so long to fix myself that it feels like I'll never be able to. And that trying out this service and making efforts would be more draining than living with the symptoms is.

I realise that's not true so I could force myself to do it, it's just what I feel.

Going to go talk with an ADHD specialized psychologist this month and will see if a service like this can be extra help perhaps.

> In my case the issue is that despite having a growth mindset for learning pretty much anything, in the case of ADHD stuff I've been trying for so long to fix myself that it feels like I'll never be able to.

Oh man this hits too close

:( +1

Yes

Half a century brother. It doesn't get any better but life is still worth living. You can reach your potential with accommodations.

I definitely feel you, and that's the biggest "con" (in context of pros/cons) of coaching. It definitely takes significant sustained efforts, which is why medication and other methods are often the first line of defense.

We're trying to make it less effort and easier, but at the end of the day we know sustained behavioral change will take effort. Along that vein, it also may not always be the best time, and may not be best fit for everyone. We totally acknowledge that and hope to just be one piece of the greater ADHD-care pie!

Good luck with your ADHD specialized psychologist!!

Same here. I think there is a natural undercurrent of skepticism on HN, a lot of which is well-deserved.

The ROI of this could be tremendous for someone in tech. If this helps you get your shit together enough to be promoted a cycle early, for example, or find a new job, it could be a bargain.

> The ROI of this could be tremendous for someone in tech.

Sure, but if someone in tech is seeking help it's better to start with ADHD therapy (not "coaching") from licensed medical professionals, utilizing their insurance to offset the costs.

The issue a lot of us are trying to raise in this thread is that the program seems designed to take advantage of the lack of understanding about therapy versus coaching and cash-only versus insured programs. They make it easy to pay and get connected with someone, but if you're looking for true therapy (not "coaching") then you want to go through traditional channels. It will likely be cheaper with most tech insurance plans anyway.

Appreciate the thought & explanation here. This is definitely an issue and I'd love to explain a bit more about our thought process here (because we definitely don't want to take advantage, instead seek to raise awareness/ educate!)

I definitely agree ADHD therapy can be hugely beneficial but most of our members have cited it as next to impossible to find a therapist (within their insurance / state / etc) who is even ADHD-informed, let alone practices ADHD-specialized therapy. Unfortunately, I've also gone through this process and found the same.

We in no way aim to replace therapy or put ourselves against therapy. Many of our members are also in therapy (for OCD, anxiety, depression, other things) and we are more than supportive of that. For many of them, their therapists are the ones who recommended them to coaching, and how they found us.

And lastly, yes. If you're looking for therapy, we're definitely not the place to go. We try to make that super clear on our website and in all of our communications (we have many drip campaigns, campaigns, Instagram posts, etc. trying to help raise awareness and shed light on the differences between therapy and coaching for ADHD). Additionally, anyone who comes through our flow (get an email) are given the option to speak with me directly before joining and I can answer any question they have / help them even if the answer is not Shimmer.

I came emotionally prepared for today (I hope enough).

Thank you for your point. Actually one of our members was recently working on a career change and their coach helped them get a job relatively quickly. Of course, the success is the members' and not the coach's! But the member cited it as a massive help :)

> As someone who is just stumbling into this world and studying ADHD as an otherwise successful adult, Chris’ description (and $99 price frankly) resonated with me and made me think I might be in the target market.

The issue is that this is likely more expensive for someone with health insurance than it would be to go out and engage with a guaranteed licensed medical professional for ADHD therapy.

They use some vague language on the website (look carefully for the "or" in the qualifications listing) to obscure that fact that you might be working with a "coach" instead of a licensed therapist. They also use some moderately misleading language to avoid saying they offer therapy for ADHD, instead offering things like life skills.

Basically, anyone looking at this should first go to their insurance company's website and check the price of true ADHD therapy from a guaranteed licensed medical professional that you can choose yourself. Over the course of several sessions, the cost of doing this through insurance could be much lower and you're arguably likely to get better treatment (coaches cannot provide therapy by law, so they're kind of coaching around it instead).

Thanks for your comments here.

We will definitely look into our language on our website to make sure we're not obscuring anything. We definitely do NOT offer therapy, and you ARE working with an ADHD Coach rather than a licensed therapist. In fact, even if the coach you're working with has a therapist/counselor credential, on our platform that is not the service they are providing.

I'd love to get a better sense of what language you feel is misleading, and we'll work hard to change that to reflect the reality of what we're offering!

Oh - I’m a professional with insurance, as is most of their target market, I’m sure. But most things I do medically require co-pays, feel complicated, require referrals, etc. This feels as accessible as a meditation app subscription, with a better value proposition to me. So I think I was weighing it against that sort of “guided-‘self’-help”, rather than therapy. And I say that as someone who just talked to a therapist, so I’m pro therapy. They just occupied a different headspace to me.

But I can see your point. If I had been looking at this as more of a medical condition that insurance would cover for me, this wouldn’t be my go-to substitute. I also see what you mean about the wording. I gave them the benefit of the doubt since they are trying to convey meaningful authority based on science without trying to claim to be your therapist…they are in an in-between space. But I admit there is likely a way to describe such a positioning without such likelihood of being perceived as being misleading.

Probably going to get downvoted - but I'll hypothesize anyway...

I imagine for the younger folks on HN, we grew up with what seemed like >50% of people claiming to have ADHD, OCD, Tourettes - or some other TikTok-fad "cool" disorder - which obviously not that many people actually have these problems.

At least not too long ago when I was young enough to be in that crowd - ADHD was the king of "cool" disorders. Everyone wanted to have ADHD. If you were "normal" - that was "uncool". It was like - what's wrong with you? Why don't you have some debilitating problem like everyone else?

So like claimed gluten intolerance in the adult population - I think there could be some skepticism to the occurrence and severity of some of these disorders - and to anyone making products for such groups to be a snake-oil salesman trying to capitalize.

But, who cares? Is anyone getting hurt? Let people do what makes them happy.

> At least not too long ago when I was young enough to be in that crowd - ADHD was the king of "cool" disorders. Everyone wanted to have ADHD. If you were "normal" - that was "uncool". It was like - what's wrong with you? Why don't you have some debilitating problem like everyone else?

Speaking as someone who definitely, definitely has rather severe hyperactive type ADHD complete with anxiety comorbidity and tactile defensiveness that presents sufficiently severely to look like mild ARFID and was diagnosed over a decade ago in early adulthood:

How, just -how-, could anyone want this disorder? It's miserable, it's embarrassing to constantly blurt things out and to immediately regret it and yet not be able to change the behavior, it fucked up my educational experience (I wasn't diagnosed until AFTER that happened), every day is a struggle with it, and because of the stigma it has, I can't even communicate to people effectively what it means that I have it!

So who cares? I care! It hurts ME when people self diagnose or claim to have my disorder when they don't. It's a struggle every. Single. Day. And thanks to people apparently deciding it's cool to pretend to have, a lot of people don't even believe my disorder exists

Endlessly frustrating.

> How, just -how-, could anyone want this disorder?

Because they don't understand just how debilitating it is and how much trauma it causes a person. It's absolutely shit, especially for those of us who find out later in our lives like both of us apparently. Aside from the normal issues that go with it, now I'm also plagued by the thought of how things could have gone had literally anyone picked up on it when I was a kid.

I don't think it's about being cool, at least not completely, I legitimately think some folks want at least some struggle in their lives. Something to fight against, something to give them...purpose? I'm honestly not sure, but I know if they did have it they'd do everything they could to get rid of it.

Don't look back with regret, frustration and anger. Look back and be proud at what you have achieved undiagnosed and what you could achieve going forwards with a diagnosis.

Oh! Your hypothesis makes a lot of sense to me, so I appreciate you risking the downvotes. I missed the ADHD over-diagnosis and that TikTok self-diagnosis stuff by a generation, but seen through that lens, I could imagine people are tired of exploitative fad-chasers in this space. I have recently talked with a couple of adults who were only recently diagnosed with ADHD and it sounded enlightening/clarifying for them, so that’s the lens through which I initially read this.

ADHD runs very strong in my family. My mom never learned to control it and lets it ruin her interactions. Changing topics 2-3 times in a sentience is not uncommon. My career was a mix of major success and failures. Basically depending how routine or novel the problem set was. Took medication at 40 for the first time.

First time in my life I was able to work on something boring where it didn’t feel physically painful to be doing it. Sadly I don’t tolerate the medication well. (Pain) so I do without it.

Alternatives are always very attractive.

I’ve often thought it would be awesome if I could just pay someone minimum wage to sit behind me and tap on my shoulder every time I got off task.

My mom is similar, but I am not. I can stay on topic quite well and inability to do so is bothersome to me, so I see that and think, “I don’t have any of that.”

But when you said boring tasks are painful, and wanting someone to tap you on the shoulder when you get off task, I was nodding along vigorously. My best solution to this (so far) is to ensure my way of contributing meaningfully to things doesn’t require rote, boring work. :) I’ve considered setting up a camera over my shoulder just to give myself the feeling of being observed…

Maybe the two of you can be that person for each other!

This hit HN two days after my comment, so for anyone else who stumbles across this thread, here is a link to another HN thread where people discuss “body doubling” and similar websites/services to help: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33478562

You got a good chuckle from me on that last comment.

Thank you for sharing your story. I'm sorry about the pain re: Medication :(

I've often thought the same thing and have heard it from others too.

Body doubling seems to be a common technique. I've often considered if some form of self surveillance (webcam, heart rate, computer usage metrics) combined with ML could observe and "nudge" you along.

For (intrusive) thoughts sometimes I'd rather not fight it because I'll randomly suddenly remember something that I couldn't recall over an hour ago, or be reminded, or see a vague connection to another topic that could be useful to investigate later.

Maybe it's not so much being reminded to stay on task but make it as frictionless as possible to capture something and put it away safely so before you get completely derailed...

As for attention "drift" when you're forcing yourself to work on something that really saps your energy so your subconscious is trying to protect you by pulling you away? The only thing I've found to help is to organise my life so that the conditions that cause that to occur have less of a chance of happening (getting enough sleep, eating protein, taking medication at consistent time with food, meditating, listening to my body and taking regular breaks to prevent crossing the overwhelm threshold, do enough housework on routine so there's no reasonable excuse to do a load of laundry) which I guess is what a lot of coaching will try and help you do, setting up practical systems to remove triggers and optimise the ideal conditions (my speculation).

I can't remember why I started writing this reply or if I'm even anywhere close to it being on topic now, but rather than delete it, I'm just going to leave it here.

>Is there a connotation of ADHD being associated with snake-oil or scams that I’m not familiar with?

With ADHD? Not really, but compared to other disabled people those with ADHD tend to be extremely pro mainstream medicine because they have basically the most effective pharmacological treatments of ANY mental disorder. Stimulants are several times more effective than treatments like SSRIs. So there is a strong bias towards conservatism because well why rock the boat when you have extremely effective treatment options?

Other disabled people tend to have a much more ambivalent or sceptical view of mainstream medicine since trying to treat most mental disorders is akin to trying to stop smoking. It does happen and it's more likely to happen the more times you try, but it's a plodding frustrating business that makes you desire something better. So they're more keen on more, lets call them "speculative" approaches to health.

For me with this specific case, it's them talking up the "science-based" (lol) nature of their program and them directly marketing it to people not diagnosed with ADHD but who suspect they have it. Show me the science showing this is an effective treatment for people who THINK they have ADHD. Thus essentially encouraging people to defer a diagnosis which results in insanely effective treatments to try a program that is experimental at best and is based off methodologies which are far less successful than pharmacological interventions. It smacks of exploitation. I'm not inherently opposed to the fundamental idea they're presenting, I simply don't trust these people AT ALL and think they're dangerous.

How many adults do you think would describe themselves as having some level of ADHD? With all the distractions of today it is a ripe market so when someone offers "treatment" with no diagnosis necessary and no actual medical professionals (I am not sure what an ADHD-coach is) it does ring a few alarm bells.

If you have genuine adhd, you are not going to be the best at money management. You will likely also not hold high paying jobs because of the executive function requirements. They probably need to be 21cfr compliant in order to qualify as a medical device. I only did part 11 and clinical analyzers so I don't know about medical devices such as an app.

Interesting concept. Personally, I'm not a fan of therapy (tried it 3 times and it didn't stick) because I felt like I wasn't learning anything tactical that I can apply to my life. I'm a founder with ADHD so I'm very focused on building and "unblocking" myself -- e.g. getting myself to do the thing I know I need to do but can't do for some reason. If having a coach who can help unblock me quickly when I'm in a state of executive dysfunction, I can see how it'd be worth the monthly fee.

Thinking of giving it a shot. I'm curious though, how long does it take to start seeing results from the coaching? I suspect that it'll take some time for your coach to get familiar with you and recommend strategies that actually work.

Also curious about what retention looks like. I tend to try a bunch of different methodologies to manage my ADHD but have trouble sticking to them -- I've tried so many productivity tools lol. What's going to get me to stay?

Another ADHD founder here. I've found that having someone else around when I need to to that thing, or a "body double" ( https://doubleapp.xyz/blog/body-doubling-proxy ), is a super useful tactic to "unblock" myself and overcome motivational hurdles like the ones you may experience.

I realized when I was rather young that I performed much better when I was around other people. I always chalked it up to being a show-off or needing someone else's validation.

TIL this is a thing.

You got me a chuckle here!

I have the same. Body doubling is the single most effective strategy I use whenever I can. I'm extremely accountability (or maybe... validation?) driven.

Flow Club is a great body-doubling app anytime you want (https://www.flow.club/coworking-for-adhd).

> I tend to try a bunch of different methodologies to manage my ADHD but have trouble sticking to them

a therapist is going up help talk you through this but the point is you have ADHD so it's no system is going to stick, so what you need to do is reframe it so that it's not that you tried a system and it failed, but to look at the 3 days/weeks/months and celebrate the time that you had with it, and to see that as positive. from there, launch into being able to pick up systems, new or different, doesn't matter, and use them to improve your life within your means. with practice it gets easier and easier and suddenly things aren't in shambles anymore.

I love this.

I'm sorry that therapy didn't work out for you. It could be therapy being misaligned with your goals, or unfortunately it could also just be a bad fit in therapist-client match. I'm in the same boat though, I struggled to find a therapist who was ADHD-informed and solution-focused under my insurance. However, I did find good therapists in the past for my eating disorder and for some other more mood-related challenges present in my family.

I know this isn't the answer you're looking for, but it's definitely an "it depends". Statistically, 83% of our members say by 2 months they're seeing improvement in reaching their goals but I must admit for now it's quite a high level metric with a lot to unpack. It'll depend on a few factors including how specific your goals are, how much time/effort you're willing to put into it, your attitude/mindset coming in, the coach/client rapport, to name a few things. For example, you could come in with 1 laser focused goal and achieve in a few weeks, or you could come in with the want to unpack your goals and find a new career trajectory etc., and that would take quite longer.

Most of our members work in 3-month goals. Some of our members are on their 2nd set of 3-month goals. However, of course there are some that found that they couldn't fit coaching into their life in the way they want and didn't continue after the initial 4 weeks. We do ask that all folks commit to trying for 4 weeks and giving it their best shot since as you mentioned, it's important to develop the coach-member relationship, set proper goals, and start to create some action plans!

Another ADHD founder here. I got value from the first session. I've always had massive issues with punctuality (I got fired from a CTO job because I rocked up late to a crucial board meeting among other things) and talking it through with my coach helped me come up with strategies I hadn't thought of (using Alexa/Google Home style devices to give me audible alerts). I was able to implement the strategies immediately and have found the follow up sessions similarly valuable. My punctuality has been heaps better in the last three weeks :)

Congrats and good luck on the launch!

Ok so in general I'd chalk this up to being disinterested, but I think this is relevant for a product meant for people with ADHD:

After a couple pages of choices, I was met with a screen with options A through K, and I instantly closed the tab. I didn't even read what it was asking. I realised that this may literally be ADHD like behaviour, so I opened it back up again, but it was still quite overwhelming and it took conscious effort to read through the form. I think this is just because I'm used to just entering my email and password, or using social logins, so filling the form seemed to be a substantial point of friction (even though I realise how it could be useful)

I'm unsure if I have ADHD, and it's never been a problem for me, but I sure do have a short attention span haha

This is really valuable feedback for us as we've iterated on that form with the ADHD community for a while and actually that exact question you're talking about is one that we've debated and changed a few times. I really appreciate your feedback here, let us revisit our notes on that question again, we'll continue to weigh the pros and cons here...

I personally believe from a UX perspective when you can make things simpler for people with ADHD, you make it simpler for all! Basically the premise of docusign :)

It's really great to see a service like this.

I was diagnosed with ADHD at 30. It's shocking how much damage it can do in your life. On the outside you might see the lost jobs, career trouble and difficulty in relationships but the inner world of ADHD can be even worse. Frustration from unmet goals and shame from letting down those closest to you.

Unfortunately, where I'm from insurance doesn't cover any kind of talk therapy. Online services like this can be an affordable way to access help.

Thank you for your kind words, it goes a long way.

I was also diagnosed as an adult and unraveling the inner world is the hardest part! Then for me, is communication and understanding with people around me that I care most about.

Where are you from? I'd love to see if we can help support you (if you want)! hi@shimmer.care

I'm based on Japan, which can have a lot of hurdles on getting medication (stimulant medication requires a special registration card) and having an ADHD diagnosis can affect getting insurance, getting a mortgage and etc.

Ah! I wasn't aware of that in Japan. I'm sorry to hear it's hard for you to get what you need, or at least to try it... We're here to help brainstorm alternatives for you. Hang in there!

> We understand that life doesn't always go according to plan. Shimmer members can cancel or reschedule a coaching video call without penalty 24 hours in advance. If cancellation is within 24 hours, the session will be forfeited for the week. Thank you for your understanding!

I understand your need to ensure your time is not wasted, but policies like this can wreak havoc on people struggling with executive dysfunction and that's your target audience. I don't know what the right solution is, but a company serving this market needs a more flexible policy for something like this.

Maybe an optional plan that costs a little extra but allows for last minute rescheduling within the week. And everyone starts with this feature at no extra cost at the beginning. The company leaves extra slots open for this possibility, treating it like an insurance scheme.

Also last minute rescheduling means last minute scheduling for other people too. They may find that they just offer this to everyone and the costs balance out. It does seem like imposing too many scheduling constraints on a specifically ADHD audience could lead to a lot of friction!

Yes! Actually we kind of have a soft rule that in the first few weeks we always make sure you get your session, even if it means rescheduling last minute. This isn't of course the best scenario for our coaches who are waiting on the other end, but we're happy to invest in this to make sure our members get off on the right foot (the onboarding call is very important and must happen to start the coaching relationship).

However, after the first few weeks, we try our best to uphold the policy because the nature of our coaching service (and we want to keep the integrity) is that the member is best fit to meet their specific assigned coach to continue the relationship (trust, openness, safe space, etc.). In practice though, as long as our coaches have time, most of them will offer a rescheduling of some sort. We do want to set good examples and boundaries and have members practice this wherever possible, while of course being sensitive to ADHD accomodations.

cc: OP, iamdbtoo

Yeah. I mean if people cancel 20% of the time then you could pay the coaches either way and then charge 20% more for the service. At least that is what I am thinking. Maybe it wouldn’t bother the coaches as much if they’re going to get paid either way. Maybe with limits to how often this can occur without a penalty.

Hm, yes. I like it, having kind of a grace period for a certain amount of times per month. This is something I've added to our list of things to look into from today's comments. Thank you!!

Give your clients alerts. Send me a text message 15 minutes before the appointment, if its time and you've been waiting for 5 minutes call me.

Yes I know I can set up calendar alerts, but odds are I screwed that up somehow, and a call will get through.

Bonus points for telling me not to feel bad and stress too much if I'm late. If it's an hour appointment and I joined 30 minutes in, that should be okay. Yeah I've lost the unused time, but otherwise that would reduce my stress.

Also I'd rather have a change under 24 hours, be accommodated (if it's possible on your end )without an extra charge.

I can definitely see myself the day before "going wait can we move our 3:00 to 5:00 instead? And if that's not possible I may just want to keep 3:00, but if it works for everyone I'd rather have 5pm"

Yes! We do 30 minutes before appointment, and coach messages once they're in the appointment! Affirming to hear your idea is similar.

We definitely have a huge culture of kindness, understanding, and non-judgemental-ness if someone misses or is late to an appointment.

Thank you for your ideas!

> We do want to set good examples and boundaries and have members practice this wherever possible, while of course being sensitive to ADHD accomodations.

I would include the accommodations in the policy, then. Right now, you have a strict policy with accommodations being hidden and handed out arbitrarily instead of making them default and transparent while the vast majority of your clients will require the accomodation.

I would also include the ability for the coach to notify the client they are currently missing the appointment. Time blindness is a very real thing and unless I stop everything I'm doing and stare at the Zoom screen there's a chance I will miss the appointment. I missed some doctor appointments this way, but if they had just texted or called me to break my hyperfocus, I would've hopped on the call right then.

Lastly, just seeing policies like this out in the wild would give me more confidence in the service you offer. Seeing the same policy that every other doctor has that ADHDers get "taxed" from all the time just makes me think you don't understand.

Good points. We will integrate this into the written policy.

And yes, we currently have a notification & text from the coach 30 minutes before appointment, and coach messages once they're in the appointment!

We also have a culture of being non-judgemental if someone misses or is late to an appointment. This is something several clients have cited as something refreshing and nice about Shimmer.

Mmm, yes. Totally understand. I think there's a few points I've noted today to better have our language to reflect our actual policies! Thank you for this.

Thank you for your ideas!

the right answer, with a pool of VC money, is to have a pool of coaches on tap, so the appointment is NOW. no scheduling stuff in the future to be missed or forgotten. expensive on the back end, but that's what the VC money is for. And also to have it in the middle of the night - so many people I know have their awake hours from 1-3am, meet people with ADHD where they are.

Thank you for the suggestion!

Unfortunately for our specific service, where the focus is on the coaching relationship between the specific coach and member, doesn't make us best fit for a "drop in" session, at least for the core model. Creating and maintaining a trusting relationship with the coach is a multi-step (multi-week) process and for many members redeveloping this trust with a 2nd/3rd coach may be out of the question.

However, I could imagine this being kind of an add on to our normal sessions, and there could be times you could talk about something separate from your specific coaching journey with a coach that may or may not be yours.

You got my wheels turning.

fair point. I wasn't imagining as a sustained thing, but as a "it's 3am, my life is in shambles because I totally time-blindnessed forgot $very_important_thing, and now I'm going to get broken up with/fired and I'm desperate and crying and overwhelmed." kind of first meeting, for capturing forward momentum from new members who just signed up and need a shred of hope. not that something like that is finally what led me to get an official diagnosis, of course. being tired of feeling like a failure is a powerful motivator to sign up, but help later at an appointment I'm going to forget and not go to is worthless compared to any sort of help now.

Ah, understood. Thank you for the clarification.

We currently have 8h/day direct line access to your coach, but definitely see your use case for the 3am example. Kind of like a hot line with an ADHD expert on the other end for support.

I agree with this. Such policies often have very ableist results for people with dopamine shortage. That may not be the intention, it's often a purely business decision based on economic analysis of the business model, but that is a common result.

The sad part is, it would be entirely possible for ADHD and other ASDs to be accomodated in daily society. But, people without those differences would abuse the absolute piss out of those accomodations. How do we prevent abuse without harming those who legitimately require such accomodations? There's a reason there is such a concept as "ADHD tax".

Am I the only adult that just never got around to getting an official diagnosis for the condition I'd obviously had since a child and thought was dealing with just fine by self medicating with caffeine and nicotine?

I read things like this and it seems so absurd. Is anyone really surprised by the diagnosis?

>Getting diagnosed with ADHD as an adult is complicated—equally heartbreaking and liberating. You literally need to rewrite your whole life narrative in light of this new realization. The process currently is super confusing and expensive (medications, therapy, coaching, tools, apps, etc.)

The only surprise for me was finding out what, what I assume, "normal" is like once I started on real stimulants. Turns out I was wrong. I wasn't dealing with it just fine all along. I'd been living on hard mode and never knew it.

Appreciate you sharing, and resonate a lot...

For me, I wasn't surprised by the diagnosis but taking the pause to finally recognize (and a 3rd party, professional) my ADHD changed things for me.

I resonate with the hard mode. I had the same realization when I got to the right dose/type of medication.

"ADHD" needs a rebranding... move away from clinical diagnosis from medical professionals which can be "heartbreaking" or "liberating" to coaches/advisors running community groups which build frameworks for these like minded, like personality individuals (and their associated family/friends) to operate in (like a 'club') and to help educate others (advocacy).

People with "ADHD" are already covered by the Big Five Personality Traits https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Five_personality_traits like every other person is.

Simplify much, are we?

Agree on the rebranding. Thank you for your positivity & inclusivity!!

Apologize if the "heartbreaking" and "liberating" language felt a bit dramatic (I am a bit dramatic...), but it really did feel that way for me after living my whole life feeling like I was constantly doing everything wrong.

Ever since slowly going deeper and deeper into the ADHD community, the positive spark of the community is undeniably special and since reframing a lot of my views on ADHD & myself, I've been able to lean more heavily on some of my "superpowers" as well.

We actually love the Big 5 personality traits out of all those similar quizzes, backed by good science and I think it's actually the fan fave of our Head ADHD Coaching Psychologist, Xenia!

There's an organization understood.org that is starting/forwarding the movement (neurodiversity as a whole, not just ADHD) exactly as you say! We're excited about some upcoming partnerships with them :)

Thanks for the nice reply and congrats on the launch!

So, please tell me, where does executive disfunction fall in the "Big Five"? How about time blindness? Emotional disregulation? Persistent short term memory issues?

It is a disorder which has a material impact on a person's ability to live in our society. In more severe cases, the afflicted benefit greatly from medication. No amount of rebranding or projection will change this.

As a coaching psychologist and a senior member of Shimmer team, I am ever so pleased to see you referring to the most validated bio-psychological model of personality traits. You are absolutely right that ADHD folk have a recognisable “signature” on a Big Five model, within the traditional and the modern interpretations of this theoretical perspective.

However, the Big Five model only talks about the most notable personality traits in statistical terms, whereas the lived experience of a person with ADHD is illuminated by the richness, variety and the amplitude of the rest of the personality traits which may be less statistically profound but critically important to a particular person and the way in which they relate to their ADHD.

While I can’t talk about the ADHD coaching overall, the “Shimmer model” is acutely attuned to the lived experience and phenomenology of each member we work with. And we always welcome critical and well-informed enquiries about what informs our approach. Thank you!

Do you think this article describing a better name for ADHD as Variable Attention Stimulus Trait or VAST [1] addresses the concerns you bring up?

[1] https://www.additudemag.com/attention-deficit-disorder-vast/

"Executive function deficit" is another popular one.

I propose we either call it "Focus Control Disorder" or where the context would be appropriate, "dopamine dysfunction". If someone is unable to function and it turns out they had a vitamin D or potassium deficiency, we don't call it "sunlight rejection disorder" or "bananaphobia", ya know? The very name of ADHD is ableist, it defines neurodivergent life in neurotypical terms (in this context, "neurotypical" merely means one has a brain that typically generates the proper amount of dopamine to function in modern society).

This is totally a problem with the manufactured society we have created as humans. I'm absolutely certain that when we lived off this earth more naturally, the traits that have become disadvantages were originally communal strengths. My personal hypothesis is that ADHD is a series of traits that evolved to make wonderful hunters. The ability for the slightest noise/motion to grab our attention, the hyperfocus on things that do grab our attention, the ability to make connections extremely fast in a fractal manner, all of these traits would be a huge advantage when hunting prey to feed your social group or to protect your group from predators.

The prefrontal cortex mediates executive function and working memory. It sends signals into the center of the brain which in turn reciprocated through dopamine neurons. Methylphenidate blocks the reuptake and breakdown of dopamine by MAO. Amphetamine stimulates the receptors on the other brain cells dendritic surface that dopamine stimulates. The middle of the brain then tells the front which tasks to focus on, what items to keep in working memory, and which emotions and behaviors to suppress. Working memory. Executive function. Emotional regulation. Because of a faulty d2 receptor, adhd brains do not respond to dopamine stimulation like neurotypical ones. They in turn fail to sufficiently signal the front of the brain which controls this higher brain function. It is unfortunate that the disease is called attention deficit hyperactivity disorder because it takes focus away from task salience--keeping on track and holding the steps to accomplish complex behavior i.e. The front of the brain. It also results in time blindness or the inability to evoke future potentials against closer consequences resulting in playing vidya instead of doing homework because the consequences are improperly measured by the front of your brain. Stimulants increase dopamine and acetylcholine. Coaching helps maintain task salience. Cognitive behavioral therapy teaches ways to externalize your executive functions and life skills and requires medical therapy in order to be successful. It is best to regard this as executive function disorder and stay away from attention as attention is often misinterpreted or lacks proper context.

Seems snap-25 also causes issues alongside d2. It helps pop out dopamine bubbles, in layman's terms. Dopamine is made in the nerve cell, then it is released outside the cell by a bubble called a synaptic vessel that basically goes inside out. It crosses the gap between cells and attaches to one of 4 dopamine receptors, the most important of which is d2 for adhd and amphetamine. It is then vacuumed up from that gap between cells by a set of proteins that can be blocked by ritalin, just like zoloft blocks the vacuum for serotonin. It then gets broken down by monoamine oxidase, another potential target for lots of therapies. This stuff is real folks and backed by knockout studies and fMRI scans.

Watch Barkley. They can't rebrand it as ADHD is already linked to law like PL 1973 and the Americans with disabilities act, and to get there was hard enough. We need to make people think executive function disorder when they hear the acronym ADHD.

> It’s $99/mo

I'm clearly not one of your intended users because I don't have $99/mo, but I don't have $99/mo because of how ADHD impacts my ability to function in current society.

As for other feedback, 11 options for question 3 on the intake survey is just too much. It takes too much effort to adequately focus on this question, so I closed the page.

I’ve been in a special program for adhd through Duke University. Treatment is not supposed to be meds OR coaching, it’s meds AND coaching. While I do appreciate having a team psychiatrist, psychologist, and medical the biggest asset is the flexibility of treatment. CBT techniques did not work for me and the workbook was not a good fit, having a team of specialists that I can contact at any time has been key. Some people can do it with just medication or CBT but most cannot. Another issue is the lack of inclusion of comorbid diagnosis which is more common than not with adhd patients. Getting the diagnosis is great it can be liberating but it can also be traumatic especially when the diagnosis is medication only. It is often the case that developers making the apps narrow the demographic to the point of no real benefit. I personally have often wished for more services such as financial management, meal planning, and work. Apps themselves are limited by the data structures as well. Most adhd patients do not think linearly and it is a disservice to force that on to us. CBT for me was masking heavy which often affects physical health and has been shown to shorten already shorter average life spans significantly. CBT can be harmful and I am wondering why it was chosen. Mindfulness as well is problematic for individuals with adhd.

CBT has to be focused with an understanding that any effort--notebooks, sticky notes, etc--is going to exhaust your already precious executive function.

What differentiates you offering from Inflow (https://www.getinflow.io)?

The description of your app sounds almost like a one to one copy.

EDIT: I checked the Inflow offering and even the pricing is similar to yours.

2nd EDIT: Also, the 'coaching, but not therapy' thing is similar.

Inflow, to my understanding, is a primarily education-based app with community & coaching components. I use Inflow myself, and find their education extremely valuable and easy to digest.

Our service (Shimmer) is focused on the coaching relationship itself. So you get matched with a 1:1 coach and meet every week over video/audio to develop that relationship and work on specific focuses. We do have a smaller element of education in it but it's only deployed in the context of your coaching journey (e.g. your coach may send you a resource related to the task you're working on for the week).

For each person, something different will resonate. For some people, multiple things will resonate! We have members who use or have used Inflow as well.

I like the site but it seems overpriced - a good therapist is cheaper and can do the same thing. A psychologist and psychiatrist can both clinically diagnose you and give you pharmaceuticals if needed at prices similar to the ones mentioned if you have insurance.

Personally I would argue from working with some kids who have adhd in the past that more gamification and reasons to use their phone will exacerbate some of the worst symptoms of their adhd.

I don’t see the niche this fills. In any case, good luck.

Thanks for the kind words on our site!

We're definitely aligned / agree that it's really hard to get affordable care. Unfortunately, we've found that our members have tried (but haven't succeeded) in finding a good therapist who is ADHD-informed and can do the specific things they are looking for in regards to coaching. Additionally, we definitely acknowledge that we provide a completely different service than psychologists / psychiatrists, and we work hand in hand with them post diagnosis. We do not offer diagnostics or pharmaceuticals and rely on other medical professionals externally to do so.

Also agree on not using gamification to worsen symptoms. That's something we consider very deeply with our clinical team to ensure we don't exacerbate our relationships to our phone. I'm personally a client on our platform and have that in mind constantly!

Thank you so much for the good luck!

> I like the site but it seems overpriced - a good therapist is cheaper and can do the same thing.

These ADHD coaching services come up a lot, and this is the general advice I give out:

Always start with your insurance options first. Many people are surprised to learn that they can get therapy (for ADHD or otherwise) for as little as $10-20 per session through their normal health insurance. Telehealth has been normalized, too, so it's likely you can do it from home.

Always check insurance first to evaluate costs. Consider how deductibles play out through the course of the year, too. This coaching service is a lot to pay out of pocket relative to what many people in tech would expect to pay with insurance involved.

My problem is finding a good ADHD focused therapist. That task seems hard, so I've never gotten around to it. I'll definitely thought in the past hey I should find an ADHD focused psych... But it never happened.

I just realized part of it is not knowing how to vet them, part is figuring out how to find availability for a psych, and then part is me not wanting to call in to set up my initial appointment.

Thank you for your comment which clearly stems from your experience of working with the ADHD folk. We are fully aligned on being cautious about the negative behavioural implications of digital tools which includes gaming.

As a coaching psychologist and senior member of Shimmer team, I concur with the prevalent view that the way to improve the quality of life of someone with ADHD is through integrative approach comprising each of the helping strands: the clinical, psychotherapy and coaching.

In this “holy trinity”, the niche filled by coaching reflects on the state of affairs which demonstrate that while humans are fairly capable of navigating their past experiences and manage the “present immediate”, we are not so successful at thinking about, and getting the best out of the future. This gave rise to the areas of psychological sciences which are focused on goal setting, planning, self-motivating and developing through the entire life-course. These pretty much inform our trademark Shimmer approach to coaching psychology and what happens during the coaching sessions, therefore.

Thank you so much for the good luck wishes. These are especially valuable since our aspiration is to evolve efficacy and the evidence-base of ADHD coaching, and to help ADHD folk have an active role in moving towards a better quality of life.

Where are you getting therapy cheaper!? most therapists I've found around me are $xxx/hr and don't take insurance.

New York - check your health insurance site or call them and ask for in network therapists. If you're paying three figures an hour you're getting screwed.

> It’s $99/mo.

Person with severe adhd and disposable income here: Nope. This is too much. Especially if you're not offering psychiatric services (e.g., no meds).

> in honor of our launch and celebration of October being ADHD Awareness Month, the first month is 40% off (offer until Nov 12).

I can appreciate celebrating october being adhd awareness month in november.

I also want to call out that there's no regulation around adhd coaching. More or less anyone can do it with out qualifications. You'll notice that there's no mention of insurance being accepted. I say this because it's a ripe area for taking advantage of people. In the absence of regulation, extra scrutiny is warranted.

The faq states:

> All of our Shimmer ADHD Coaches are licensed or certified mental health professionals or have extensive experience with ADHD & undergo our Shimmer Coach Training program developed alongside our clinical advisors Dr. Amin Azzam (MD, MA), Dr. Anil Chacko (PhD), and our Head ADHD Coaching Psychologist Xenia Angevin.

> All of our Shimmer ADHD Coaches are licensed or certified mental health professionals or have extensive experience with ADHD

That's a sneaky 'or' there -- What're the statistics around the coaches qualifications?

> have extensive experience with ADHD & undergo our Shimmer Coach Training program

So not mental health professionals

> our clinical advisors Dr. Amin Azzam (MD, MA), Dr. Anil Chacko (PhD), and our Head ADHD Coaching Psychologist Xenia Angevin.

No linkage to their qualifications

> Person with severe adhd and disposable income here: Nope. This is too much. Especially if you're not offering psychiatric services (e.g., no meds).

Thanks for pointing this out, we know it's still not in reach for most people. We're trying our best to get it as low as possible and are working on alternate routes, especially for those with the financial need. Right now we have our financial aid application, and we're working on something a bit bigger that will disproportionately impact communities of need

> I can appreciate celebrating october being adhd awareness month in november.

Haha, yes, we're a few days late. The month we're observing is Oct12-Nov12

> I also want to call out that there's no regulation around adhd coaching. More or less anyone can do it with out qualifications. You'll notice that there's no mention of insurance being accepted. I say this because it's a ripe area for taking advantage of people. In the absence of regulation, extra scrutiny is warranted.

Agree on extra scrutiny. The area of ADHD coaching has been unregulated and quality is definitely variable (really great coaches costing $2,000+/mo. and other new coaches marketing their services without much training etc). I have a separate comment down / up there somewhere on insurance. We're standing on the shoulder of giants by putting together psychoeducation that is science-backed and pooling resources & knowledge to help guide with what has worked for ADHD brains. We're working towards some loftier goals right now as well including an Academy-like offering...

> That's a sneaky 'or' there -- What're the statistics around the coaches qualifications?

> No linkage to their qualifications

Dr. Anil Chacko: https://steinhardt.nyu.edu/people/anil-chacko

Xenia Angevin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/xenia-angevin/ Dr. Amin Azzam: https://meded.ucsf.edu/people/amin-azzam

> Person with severe adhd and disposable income here: Nope. This is too much

Even for people with disposable income, a rate like this should trigger some cursory research on your insurance provider's website. Common tech company insurance plans might very likely come out much cheaper than this when multiple sessions are considered across a year and deductibles are taken into account.

And you get to choose your provider and know their qualifications as a mental health professional. Telehealth is commonly available, too.

Don't let the high price of any of these cash-only services discourage anyone from seeking therapy. If you have insurance, always check that first and do the math.

I'm curious why so many companies and products come out of the gate with pricing too high. Are they so overconfident in their offerings? Are they just that desperate? Why not start at lower-than-expected pricing, cause an uproar and influx of new customers, and increase cost to keep the new customer numbers in check? I would think we have a better handle on the launch process by now. I wish you and your team well.

Tried creating an account with Sign In with Apple and got this result: https://imgur.com/a/Op7UCBL

Just fixed the issue! You should be able to sign in with apple id now, sorry about the trouble there.

I have ADHD (late diagnosis) and am both medicated and have had years of counselling.

The problem with ADHD is that a simple dopamine system deficiency expresses in ways as complex as humans themselves.

I found something that works for me but I imagine it wouldn't work for anyone else.

Even with thousands spent per year on the best help, I'm still my own worst enemy due to the constant brain discomfort.

As an example, my work focus is fine but I struggle with compulsion , impulsively, chronic boredom and addiction.

While I applaud any effort to raise awareness and develop solutions, the solutions I feel are as complex as the problems and they're not something you can encapsulate and charge $99/mo for.

Sorry.

Thank you for sharing your experience. And kudos to all the work you've done.

I definitely agree that our bite-sized coaching is not meant for everyone, nor is it meant for every situation. I am always happy to jump on the phone with any potential Shimmer member to discuss their unique situation and am always honest about if we think we can help or not.

Oftentimes the outcome of this call is simply support from another peer with ADHD (me) and perhaps a soft referral to a service or medical professional we know.

This is a really nifty idea! I like the fact that you guys are combining teletherapy with also an app that gives more actionable things to follow. Definitely one of the hardest things about going to therapy was actually practicing the things we'd talk about during the session.

As many have already pointed out, the price point is definitely high, but I think you guys can need to target a wealthier audience in the beginning before being able to make all your resources accessible to everyone.

> If you have ADHD (or think you do)

Does the "or think you do" mean you perform diagnoses too?

Unfortunately we don't perform diagnoses at this point. We do have some great partners that we refer out to for diagnoses, or we can help support folks through that process.

What we mean by that is we coach people who don't necessarily have a diagnosis. We welcome anyone who wants to come and be coached on ADHD-related skills & goals. For example, if you want to work on your executive function but you don't have an ADHD diagnosis, you're completely welcome here!

This is also because certain cultures (or an array of different circumstances could put someone in this position) prevent folks from getting a timely diagnosis and/or they don't want to tell their parents, etc. But in this case they can still get coaching with less of the stigma. This is a broader challenge/problem in society though that we're barely scratching the surface on.

As a female, queer, BIPOC/AAPI person who grew up in a certain "bubble", I've definitely faced head on how hard it can be to take the first step to diagnosis.

Well this pricing is out of reach from most of the minorities. I'm not even sure why bring that up?

Thanks for the question. I bring this up because getting a diagnosis if you grew up in a community where mental health is stigmatized can be really hard. But getting help in case you can't get that diagnosis in a lower key way (e.g. ADHD coaching) doesn't have to be out of reach! This is 1 of the many reasons we don't require a diagnosis.

In terms of pricing, we offer financial aid to those who are in need as well. Hopefully we'll help bridge this gap and are actively working with a few non-profits to help sponsor these costs too!

I am shocked by the responses on this thread. It is clear just by reading this thread that there is a problem with treating ADHD. Research shows that the most effective treatment is a combination of medication and behavioral coaching. However, most people can not afford behavioral coaching, and insurance usually does not cover it. A founder encountered a problem that affects many people and set out to solve it. They are not making another AI/NFT/Marketplace solution to make a few bucks but are actually trying to make the world better. We need more people like Chris in the world.

Like you I was suprised by the amount of negative reception but I can sympathize with most of these people. The company failed at properly communicating their vision and USP regarding the experiences, hopes and fears of their target audience and animated checkbox diversity pictures on the website don't cut it.

I can't (and honestly don't want to) calculate the amount of late fees and forgotten continuing subscriptions I had to pay for over my lifetime. The advertised service seems comparatively expensive and not exactly scalable without the company cutting corners (3rd world call centers) or raising prices soon.

As the founder of iFocus Health you should take notes what went wrong here.

I have severe ADHD, but I have paid THOUSANDS to therapists and honestly - I NEVER got any benefit from it other than more stress from having to pay so much money for something out-of-pocket.

My ADHD has cost me a lot more than money, but what specifically, or HOW specifically is your therapy different than the therapists I have already spent $$$$ on?

It does not because there is no coaching that fixes ADHD. It's almost like they are offering coaching for cancer. Just not going to work and taking advantage of vulnerable.

Though I do agree with your point, the symptoms of adhd can be managed with lifestyle changes

Would be very happy to hear your lifestyle changes that manage (what does that mean?) the symptoms. Honestly if they work that would help me an others a lot.

For me the symptoms are loosing around a few ten to hunderd of thousands of dollars a year (maybe even millions) in my work/career. How can my lifestyle changes manage that?

No attack, really really curious.

Yes! I'm excited about this question. I'd like to share more about specifically what I've been working on in coaching. Most is related to (1) my work as an entrepreneur and (2) my role as a partner at home.

I'll start with (1), at work:

At work I struggle with time management, prioritization, getting stuck in "waiting mode", not being able to finish any detailed task (very important for legal etc), and getting easily distracted from any task at hand

Concretely, with my coach we started with helping me envision what would be different in my life if I fixed a certain number of the above. She explained this hope and motivation created would help me draw from an internal source of motivation since for a long time I theoretically wanted to change certain things and knew the path but couldn't actually bring myself to do it. I'd say this helped mildly, but I did feel a lot more hopeful and supported.

For me the most impactful change was having my coach guide me through the process of experimenting with different daily schedules that incorporated deep work blocks (she helped me set up triggers, rewards, plans for distractions, etc), certain auditory alarms throughout the day, and very specific systems that helped me get these small "detailed" items changed. I'm simplifying this a lot and I'm happy to go into detail more if anyone wants.

(2), at home:

I struggle with impulsivity, especially when I'm super stressed at work and not getting enough sleep. We addressed this a few ways, including some psychoeducation around nutrition and sleep, setting up some decent systems there (but it definitely didn't get me the whole way).

What was most helpful was to do a journaling exercise my coach led my through where I identified things I said that I regretted (this was a tough exercise for me to do, to have it written out), and rewrote these situations after the fact. Then when I had a long enough list, we looked for themes around triggers/situations and then rewrote the book for what would happen in those situations. We went through a light "practicing" exercise and eventually I had those on sticky notes in front of me until they got etched in my brain.

Overall, both (1) and (2) I'm still not great at, and we try to view everything as an ongoing journey of management, rather than "curing" ADHD, which won't happen. The biggest impact for me (and many of our members) has been having someone guide me through the steps and ask me questions and kind of just support me when I'm really hard on myself.

Appreciate the honesty and openness!

I know I could be working on things that generate a lot of money but I am just constantly distracted by HN, Games, YT etc.

So happy if you would go into detail about "set up triggers, rewards, plans for distractions, etc), certain auditory alarms throughout the day, and very specific systems that helped me get these small "detailed" items changed".

Not convinced that there is anything that I would not just ignore after a day or two but extremely happy to be proven wrong. I tried a lot of things, all failed after a very short time

Thank you, and more than happy to share in detail what we're on. The key (or one of the keys... not THE one) here is not just that I'm working on those things, but that there's another human on the other side who I deeply respect who is keeping me accountable to these changes. Checking in each week and knowing that check in is coming is helpful for me. For me out of the motivators of [accountability], [novelty], and [interest], accountability is my personal biggest one.

But back to the topic...

> Setting up triggers, plans for distractions, rewards:

1. Triggers: I get a glass of this special coffee (smart energy coffee, a brazillian brand that just came to US actually) every time I enter a 3 hour deep work block. It signifies the ritual has started, essentially

2. Plans for distractions: We tried a lot of things here, some worked and some don't (it's important you test and experiment to find what works for you). For me, I pre-came up with what sort of situations would take me out of flow easiest and planned around it. It was cumbersome but helped. E.g. for me it was "if a member emails I feel inclined to respond right away to help them", my solution was to give that 3 hour "shift" to my co-founder and trust that he's got it. Another one that worked was having a distraction log stickynote. If something happened that wasn't on my deep work agenda, no MATTER how important it was, I wrote it down on the sticky note and moved forward. This was really hard in practice but now I have it a lot better down

3. Rewards: This we also tested a lot and tbh I don't have anything perfect here yet but after each deep work session I allow myself to bask in the sun on my balcony and now I find myself nearing the end of the block and feeling the sun already as a physical response (I'm very sensory)

> Auditory alarms: I used to have terrible alarms that induced anxiety, fear, and surprise. My coach had me change it to things that are pleasant (oddly I never thought alarms should be pleasant lol). Now I have certain ones that signify the start and end of sessions, my work day, etc. They're just on auto-pilot and they help me build an awareness of time. Once again, like the other stuff, daunting to set up but once it's set up and you find your flow, it runs itself.

> Detailed items: THIS ONE is definitely still a challenge for me BIG TIME. I now have a specific part of my to-do list that is for items like this and I've experimented with different times in the day I do it, how I do it, in what chunks, etc. And we landed on me setting aside 1 time a week for "these tasks" that are kind of gross and I do it with wine (I know... not great) and with my partner, and with a pomodoro clock and we race each other to finish our annoying tasks.

Building consistent habits and working to streamline your life can mitigate some of the negative effects. Just getting exercise really helps me.

Stepping back and looking at the big picture, there will always be an effect on my life from having ADHD, but I do have influence. Focusing on the things you can control is important.

If you think exercise or some good habits significantly changes ADHD you don't know what ADHD is, sorry.

I do both, does not change my ADHD at all (it has other benefits surely)

Exercise manages symptoms, it’s not a cure. Honestly if you have adhd I would stop coming to HN. It’s a distraction and the nature of it requires you to constantly check in.

Exercise manages ZERO ADHD symptoms. I can tell you between times of almost zero exercise and anything from once to five times a week the ADHD was not affected.

Telling me to stop coming to HN is like telling a drug addict to just not take drugs.

Even if I block HN, I will just be distracted by something else.

This!.

I ride my bike LITERALLY 1,000 miles a month. ADHD is not mitigated by this - only my focus on depression is... and still... that doesnt relieve it.

Good luck

> If you think exercise or some good habits significantly changes ADHD you don't know what ADHD is, sorry.

I think this is uncalled for, especially when in your very next sentence you clarify that you’re speaking about your own experience. Everyone’s can be different.

It is not! What is uncalled for is telling someone with a serious health condition that is NOT changed by some exercise that it would be.

The effect exercise has on me is wanting to eat better, sleep better etc and it gives me more energy.

All of these things help with my ADHD and I'm much more affected by symptoms when my body is not in shape. Not sure why that other commenter insists on being so offended.

That’s a pretty uselessly vague “symptom”. Do you lose it by literally withdrawing cash and misplacing it? By purchasing expensive things on a whim and ignoring them? By gambling? By failing to sign contracts or meet deadlines? By making the wrong product and incurring contract penalties or regulatory fines? All of those have different triggers and ways to avoid them.

I get it. I'm lucky enough that I can spend thousands a year to get the professional support I need but simply turning up to talk for an hour a week isn't going to achieve much, you have to put in the work to set up your life, your environment in a way that works for you to help slowly improve the chances that your have more good days than bad and not get drawn into a black hole of bad days that just sucks all your energy, motivation, will. Everyone is different but coaching should help you find the practical changes you can make to shift the needle towards more good days and less bad.

Here are two basic things that worked for me and I recommend to everyone.

1. A pill organiser. Medication helps a little, but not a lot for me, however if I don't take it I know I'm increasing my risks of having a bad day somehow. So I know I need to regularly take my pills. Problem was, I kept forgetting if I'd had a morning dose, or a lunch dose, or maybe if forgotten to fill my prescription on the weekend and ran out midweek, or forgot to pack my pill bottle. On Saturday mornings I fill a weekly pill organiser (7 removable plastic box things with 4 sections). This way I know if I need to top up at the pharmacy ahead of the work week. I also visually see if I've taken a particular dose. It's also more compact and easy to carry than bottles and blisters.

Sure it's not perfect. Last saturday night I filled it up then went to bed forgetting to take the actual dose for that night. I missed my antidepressants and the repercussions from withdrawal can last a couple of days. However, this was a much more common occurrence before I started doing this.

So that's a big change for managing my symptoms right there. Sure it might not be relevant for your situation but it's an example of a system/habit that helps manage symptoms

2. A translucent plastic water bottle with a built in straw. I'd hate to think what my kidneys look like. I've never been good at staying hydrated because (as I now know) my nervous system isn't very good at telling me about those sorts of things until it's dire. I'd easily go a whole work day without any fluids and not notice. I'd try jugs of water on my desk, or setting alarms. All to distracting. I'm also clumsy (dyspraxia como) so would end up spilling stuff everywhere, or dropping glasses.

Then someone suggested a water bottle with a straw. I was sceptical but it has changed my life and I know how stupid it sounds but I can't stress enough how much of positive impact it has had on my health and well-being.

I (and others) theorise that it's much easier to drink while still maintaining visual attention on what your doing. You don't need too engage as much hand eye coordination etc.

So there's another change.

I don't want to sound like some corny psa, but having simple systems to help support me in properly taking my medication and staying hydrated means I can take on the world freeze frame. cut to titles

But seriously. These have by no means "cured" me. But they really help. A lot.

Your #2 is oddly one of my fav things I've implemented recently. I use 2 identical bottles with straws that I fill in the morning and just by them being there (I drink them whenever I'm listening in Zoom calls... looks a bit awkward, but I'm over it) I'll finish 2 full bottles a day without even noticing it. My whole life I've drank literally 0 water up until recently!

Another one that worked well for me is putting laundry baskets in each corner of my living space and swapping out my closed clothing drawers with open hanging shelves (from Ikea, <$20) and small open boxes (<$5) on the ground for underwear, socks, etc.

It's experimenting with these small things to put on autopilot that have helped me a lot too!

Large mesh laundry bags. Different colours. Split your dirty smalls, t-shirts, bedding etc. between them then just zip them and throw one in the wash each day at some set time. You still have to remember to take them out again.

I've seriously considered installing some kind of soundproofed/vibration-isolated cupboard inside my walk in wardrobe to just keep everything in the same place, but my wife is less than keen. A laundry chute, however, surprisingly, still on the cards.

100% agree that no coaching fixes ADHD. ADHD is a neurodevelopmental condition that for the most part will be with us for our entire life. However, we do have the ability to manage our symptoms and set up the environment around us to make it a bit better for us!

For example, something super small but I've been working with my coach to set my room up so that it's harder for it to get and stay messy. I've - put up these cute hooks all over my room to put up hats and clothes so they don't get thrown on the floor - put a laundry basket in each of my closet, bathroom, and bedroom - switched my closed wardrobe to an open-concept hanging closet (which was so much cheaper too!) so I can see all my clothes in one place which is less overwhelming and messy, since I'm not pulling all my clothes out each time - switched my waterbottle to a straw-system so I actually get my 2 bottles a day

... the list goes on, the more I can settle and make "auto-pilot", my life gets a bit easier to manage

I cant believe you didnt even answer my question, a person who has already spent thousands on this problem personally and youre announcing a fucking launch IM YOURE FUCKING CUSTOMER

Thanks for your comment, and apologies on the delay here.

> what specifically, or HOW specifically is your therapy different than the therapists I have already spent $$$$ on?

First I want to re-clarify that we are not providing therapy. We providing coaching services for ADHD-related symptoms and skills (like executive function). However, coaching (along with therapy) definitely does not cure ADHD, as ADHD is a lifelong neurodevelopmental condition.

Answering your question directly, our approach is rooted in Health & Wellness coaching, and incorporates large amounts of positive psychology and behavioral change science. The way Shimmer works is that you pair up with an ADHD coach and each week you declare 1 focus area (2 or 3 if you're feeling ambitious) that you're going to work on. It could be implementing a habit or system, or practicing a skill. Throughout the week, your coach helps you fight fires if something comes up.

Specifically re: Therapy, it's different in that it's focused on the daily actions and routines/habits you will try out and implement. It will require significant effort or at least commitment on the member's part as well, as our coaches cannot make the changes for them.

Really appreciate your question, and thank you for your patience as we work through these comments.

Try me out. lets see if your shit works?

Thank you, I'd like to give you a datapoint ;;

I developed ADHD as a symptom of being in IT/OPs/Devops/Director of IT my entire career, which when managing a large team and an enourmous mount of servers/data -- and designing a lot of things... I was mentally task switching CONSTANTLY

So my mind is always all over the place because I can think of several subjects simultaneously in great detail.... (but Can't everyone?)

I just started with Shimmer and I'm loving it so far. The coach they paired me with is wonderful. I feel like she really gets me. I had a 30-minute video call with my coach where she asked a lot of questions to get to know me and my challenges. We mapped out a plan to work on those challenges and she gave me action items at the end to work on before our next call. She texted to check in and has been asking questions throughout the week. I have my 2nd session tomorrow and I'm really excited. I've tried traditional coaches in the past and it cost $100 per week/session. This is way more affordable and the fact that we can keep in touch between sessions adds so much value. Overall I'm loving Shimmer!

A message to those diagnosed or not with ADHD. It's also ok to be yourself, and not try to 'fix' yourself.

Shit at some aspects of life? All good. Good at some things? Great.

Not saying treatment is bad, just that being yourself, with all its costs and benefits, is a completely legitimate option.

Medicate always as a last resort

No. Medicate when you think it will help you at a cost-benefit trade off you’re happy with. Same with a coaching service like this, or regular therapy, or other treatment. You aren’t going to stay the same person throughout life, no matter what.

Alternatively, don't define who you are by your mental illnesses. People are not built equally, and some things can be considered objectively broken.

Shit at some aspects of life that are easily treatable? Treat them.

ADHD remains one of the most easily medically treatable diseases. Do not listen to people propagating the stigma that you should just accept a substandard life. For most people with ADHD, medical treatment works very well and massively improves quality of life. Medical treatment does not have to be a last resort.

Clearly you are not aware how debilitating ADHD can be at times, even with proper and continuous care/treatment.

This is a hereditary neurodevelopmental disorder, not just a feeling anyone can pick up tomorrow and be cured of again in a couple of weeks if they just put in the work and keep smiling.

> It's also ok to be yourself, and not try to 'fix' yourself.

Society is very clear that it is not okay with this. If I'm "just myself" then I wouldn't be able to hold down a job and survive.

> Medicate always as a last resort

We shouldn't be so hesitant to medicate. It can be extremely useful, especially in combination with other management techniques. This stigma against medication hurts people.

> If I’m “just myself” then I wouldn’t be able to hold down a job and survive.

this is the thing i don’t get: for someone who’s by nature not accustomed to doing things in the prescribed way, how can they be expected to resolve that via the prescribed way?

i.e. i have to meddle through insurance, appointments, specialists that cost $$ for an assessment which _might_ lead to something useful or might just tell me things i’ve already learned via other means while waiting 2 months in line (actual ADHD specialists are in high demand) and then follow through with monthly checkups and such. if part of my issue is “i just can’t do things that way”, how can the expected solution require me to overcome that before getting treatment? it’s circular; it’s a contradiction.

> We shouldn't be so hesitant to medicate. It can be extremely useful, especially in combination with other management techniques. This stigma against medication hurts people.

i have a lot of friends for whom others would label non neurotypical. i’d never use that word myself, because i’m in such a bubble that i literally don’t know what the word is supposed to mean. but they point out my habits enough that it’s clear “you should see about a diagnosis”.

of course i haven’t, for reasons you can infer from the earlier paragraph. but these friends did turn me onto some QoL improvements like alarms, journaling systems, etc, and i also found that some meds help. it’s better, but now i’m stuck in a situation where i ration meds because the only way to get them through a system i understand involves paying 10x what i’d pay if i could jump through hoops for the professional medical system.

someday i’ll get around to actual diagnosis, but, well, i’m very good at finding excuses not to. it would be nice if i could be allowed to pursue these things in my own way instead of people using the law to block off as many alternatives as they can. allow me options, let the knowledge be easy to find, and sure promote awareness so that i can understand sooner that and how my mental experiences differ from what is normal or healthy. and then let me try these different options and figure out what works best for me. why can’t i have this?

To OP and the rest of the folks in this thread: firstly, thanks for opening this convo. It's quite complicated in that each person who is neurodiverse (ADHD or other condition) is wholly different from the next, in symptoms / personality / severity / how much it impacts your life, the list goes on.

Along that vein, there is a level of acceptance (at least for me) that I will always be different. The decision of what I want to change (just like any neurotypical person decides to embark on a 'personal growth' journey) is also each individuals to take. Of course, the flip side here is that the societal pressure etc., obviously makes it not that simple (holding down jobs, etc.).

Another distinction for those new to ADHD is that by definition, your life needs to be significantly impacted (at home, school/work, etc.) in multiple domains for a diagnosis.

In terms of medication, right now for ADHD it's the most scientifically proven way (70-80% of people with ADHD see benefits) to manage ADHD symptoms but can also have some side effects. Because of this and many other reasons, some folks prefer to engage in behavioral change solutions not necessarily to 'fix' themselves only, but potentially just to reach certain goals they have. This may be used together with medication/therapy or on its own.

My personal journey with ADHD- I was diagnosed over a decade ago during my Ph.D. I am taking stimulant medication. I have a family, held good jobs and am a founder. However, my journey to find the right medication as well managing life's challenges is ongoing. How do I deal with the endless to-do list? How should I manage those bad days where I can't seem to get anything done? How do I deal with my strong emotional responses to negative feedback?

I really resonate with this and I just signed up for the month intro package!

It seems like a small price to pay if it works! My therapist (Cognitive Behavioral Therapy/CBT) and Internal Family Systems (IFS)) always says that the key to ADD/ADHD is to have structure, and this looks like shimmer could fit that prescription!

Chris, I am in your knowledge learning section of the app and your videos are not able to be played on Android because they are stuttering. I think maybe your server is getting hit too hard? I finally got through the welcome video in the app but it did stutter a bit.

Thank you so much for signing up and really looking forward to your feedback about your experience on our platform! What Android device are you using for our app?

We'll definitely investigate on our backend and see if we can reproduce the stuttering on our Android test devices as well. You can always email support@shimmer.care or message the Shimmer admin account directly within the app and we'll make sure to log your bug and prioritize it with the team after investigating!

Thanks, I see the admin chat. I saw it after I posted this. It is a Pixel 3. It also took a while for the video just show up on the page, so I think it really is something with server overload, possibly from being on front page of HN? I'll message again if it is still happening in 24 hours.

Thank you for letting us know! It does seem like that may have been the issue and we'll be looking more into how we can improve that with the team, feel free to DM us within the admin chat if you notice it still later on as well.

You're better off with a GP for med management and a licensed CBT therapist who has a deep understanding of Barkley's take on adhd. Literally decision fatigue minimalization, externalization of task salience and planning, and proper medical management. I appreciate the attempt to monetize what Barkley regards as compassionate helpers, but with adhd, the vigilance is way to high already--read bullshit meter.

I’ll send everyone emojis and only charge half as much. DM’s open.

In this company's defense, there are many supplements and research chemicals that n=1 help but cannot go through FDA compliance because of financial reasons--No-one will redo the Russian study proving Piracetam as effective because it would then be a generic, however it is life-changing for many people with adhd.

Why is your onboarding questionnaire so complex? Is it a regulatory requirement? The "what are the symptoms?" page in particular is absolutely humongous. I felt visceral aversion at looking at that massive list but managed to push through and click Procrastination and Staying on Task only to be rewarded by an extra page.

Feedback taken! It's not a regulatory requirement but helps us understand what challenges folks are coming in with. We've been pouring over this part of the intake with members & the ADHD community and now have received a couple more points of feedback that we take very seriously!

We'll be updating the flow today.

Looks super cool, excited to try! Do you have any discount codes for students and/or plans of different pricing for non-NA countries?

I'm a working student living in a country where your price is almost 20% of my salary so it'll be very difficult for me and many others like me to afford.

I'm an adult with ADHD but this doesn't appeal to me because I've already found behavioral techniques that work really well for ~free.

I'll try and describe one briefly: I use a free app called Virtual Motivaider[1] to make my phone vibrate every 2 to 6 minutes. I'll print a sheet[2] that has a table with two columns. Every row is the same: the first column has the text "Am I on Task?" and the second column has two check boxes, "[ ] Yes [ ] No". When I start a task that I typically struggle to hold my attention to, I start the app, and when I feel the vibration, I check off if I was on task or not. I picked the 2 to 6 minutes interval arbitrarily; there could be many other intervals that work just as well. There's also probably other apps out there that just vibrate at a user-set interval.

This has worked extremely well for me. It seems that just recording a behavior can increase it or decrease it in the direction that you want.

I learned about this from a textbook called "Applied Behavior Analysis" by Cooper et al, in a chapter titled "Self-Management". If my technique (technically known as "self-monitoring of attention" or "self-monitoring of on task behavior") sounds interesting, I would recommend finding a pdf of that book and reading that chapter. It has some vocabulary that's defined earlier in the book, so you can just look them up in the index or glossary as you read. The book and the field it hails from can be annoyingly dogmatic, though.

I'll stop talking about it for now, but I do like to share this whenever adult ADHD comes up because its helped me dramatically, and much more so than any professionally-run special education program I was in or popular psychology book about habits or getting things done. OP, I haven't looked at your app or page too deeply so maybe you're already doing something like this or other behavioral techniques, but if you're not, it might be worth checking out.

[1] The company that made Virtual Motivaider also sells (well, they stopped producing them because of COVID difficulties, but they're currently trying to get them back) a physical product called Motivaider. It looks like a digital kitchen timer but it just does the same thing as the app. I bought one after using the app for some time, and while the app worked very well, the physical product has some nice benefits, like a very distinct and quiet vibration, and a lot less friction to start a new session.

[2] Printing out new sheets for each task, or printing out a lot and then having to get one for each task, turned out to be pretty inconvenient, so I've since compressed the table into a 2 row by 15 column one, where in the first column the first row has a "Y" and the second one has an "N". The rest of the columns are for putting an x in the Y or N row. I fit 6 of these in a 6 x 9 inch document, made a pdf of 100 of these pages, then used a print on demand service to print a spiral bound book of it, which I carry with me between work and home. This has eliminated a ton of friction and I've ended up using this technique much more often.

You do get that "finding the techniques that work for you" is like the whole value of the coach, right? You're standing at the end, and I'm assuming you've put in a lot of work to get where you are because the kinds of resources that would helped you weren't available.

There is such a gap of "people who have ADHD sharing the things that actually worked for them." One of the best strategies for me "task bracelets" I didn't get from my therapist but a random TikTok.

I don't really know if this service is the one to pull it off but I want something like it to exist.

You took the words out of my mouth! Many of our members (me included) have tried to adopt things others said worked for them, and it can get quite exhausting finding time after time that they don't work. There are 2 (of many things) that could be happening here: 1. The tool/tip wasn't the right one for you. 2. The tool/tip wasn't implemented in a way that maximized chance of success

Those 2 items above are what our coaches try to help with.

With 1., just picking up and trying something someone else is using can get exhausting. Our coaches help you dissect what the problem is, what sort of systems work well for you (in the past), what don't, and why, and then help you pick from a narrowed list to choose. For example, accountability works really well for me (body doubling) but another one of our members hates it because they are introverted and easily distracted by movements of others.

With 2., sometimes we pick up the right tool/tip but we don't implement it properly. We try it hastily for one day and then give up. Our coaches use behavioral change psychology to break down the steps, implement it into your life in the way that sticks, then keep you accountable to actually giving it your best shot.

Wow, thank you for sharing these super specific systems you have put in place that work for you! With your permission, I'd love to share these tools and tips with our coaches, in case they haven't seen them before (they are new to me!) and may be relevant to their members.

I'm excited that you have found your exact mix, and our mission is exactly to help other folks just like us found their unique mix of tools & systems that work for their life. With their commitment to experimenting, the abundance of resources like the ones you've shared, and our coaches' guidance, we hope to get our members to their version of where you're at! Ideally with free stuff too!

The goal of coaching is most definitely not to be a crutch that you have to use forever. Ideally they can get to a point similar to yours with the aid of their coach! Oftentimes, the sifting through info, experimenting, and staying motivated part is the hard part (that we hope to be able to help with!)

>With your permission, I'd love to share these tools and tips with our coaches,

Well, sure, it's not like I own them!

I guess the first line of my post came off a bit jaded. After having people paid to deal with my ADHD not come up with anything truly effective in my whole education since high school, it was both relieving and disappointing to end up figuring out something myself. If your app helps people figure out what works for them, then best of luck to you.

congrats on finding something that works for you!

This sounds super useful, I'll give it a try. I definitely agree with reducing friction helping extensively, I only get so many attention points during the day.

This is definitely a service that needed to exist, so I'm really glad that someone finally did it. That being said, if you have ADHD or suspect you might have ADHD, I highly recommend seeing a medical professional to get diagnosed first before beginning any form of treatment.

ADHD is caused by poor functioning of the connections between neurons in certain areas of the brain that are responsible for impulse control and attention. You can't fight this functional deficit with willpower or coaching alone. Decades of research shows that ADHD is highly treatable with medication and there is almost no evidence that therapy or coaching is effective.

All this being said, I think that people with ADHD develop patterns of behaviour to cope with ADHD symptoms. Once medication has restored proper functioning in your brain, I think coaching and therapy definitely play a role in helping you learn new patterns of behaviour that are more appropriate in the context of a properly functioning brain.

It’s entirely possibly to have ADHD and opt out of medication. If it’s appropriate or not is very individual though, probably not something we can settle on a message board.

Opting out of meds is a valid personal choice, for sure.

I second this! If you have or suspect you have ADHD, a licensed medical professional is your first line of defense. Even if you don't choose treatment, the clarity could be helpful (it was for me!). But I also understand for various reasons some choose not to get diagnosed and there's a lot of work we need to do on the societal level to reduce the stigma, especially poignant in certain cultural communities (like my own...).

Just today I was thinking of a service like this for coaching of neuro-diverse couples (autistic/neuro-typical, etc.).

I'm happy to see this in the world.

What kind of cut do you take for matching coaches with clients? This would likely determine the quality of the coaches.

We use a contractor model (we aren't a marketplace, at least as of now) so close to 100% goes to coach contracting costs right now.

Over time we're working on some other efficiency features and in-app capabilities to support our profitability.

We can definitely vouch for the quality of our coaches though, and a few of them definitely take a pay cut vs. their other contracting jobs because of their personal missions to offer more accessible / affordable solutions to ADHD folks. We're tirelessly working toward our 3 pillars of increasing member value, decreasing cost to member, and increasing payments to coaches per hour.

Thank you for the q!

Do any of your coaches have ADHD themselves?

Most of our coaches do. This lived experience is really important so that they understand the members (and also model good behavior / give hope to the member) and also can self disclose. The world of ADHD coaching is very fascinating and inspirational for me because ADHD coaches are so niche, that most of them either have ADHD or have a partner/child/parent with ADHD and that's generally the reason they were propelled into the space. I'm really lucky to work with an almost exclusively ADHD team, but of course, also we work through certain challenges together too.

Anything related to mental health, and ADHD/ADD in particular, lights up like a Christmas tree here on HN.

That I've found!!!

It's almost as if a website that's constantly updating you on the full breadth of technology in our world is some form of magnet for people with ADHD :D

Sure, please let me know your schedule and I’ll set up a 1:1 call so you can learn from a really really smart person that commitment to mental health and profit are mutually exclusive and you should pivot into something different, and because it’s such a short conversation, I’ll only charge you $170,000 because you’ll save a lot of money and heartache down the line. Easy to find on Twitter.

Are the coaches licensed to practice counseling in California ?

Is the problem ADHD or is the problem WFH? hmmmm

A venn diagram for sure. The 2 together can definitely exacerbate the situation.

What, specifically, is a whole life narrative?

I was saving this one to answer, because it's really personal for me!

For each person it'll be different. But in short, these are the stories you tell yourself, about yourself.

For example: when I was a kid I was always put in this "special" desk that faced the back wall, or the other "special" desk that was pushed up against the blackboard next to the teacher. I was always "other"'d and kept away from others. I started growing this idea that I was just a "bad kid", that I needed to be removed or separated from others. That nobody wanted to hear what I had to say. That I was a "bad apple". This really demotivated to try at all in school, and the only place I felt confident was in Physical Education class where I was allowed to be loud and move around without being yelled at. Over time, as I learned about ADHD, I wasn't a bad kid... and that sports wasn't even really my thing (lol). With this new "fact", I was able to separate some of my behaviors and tendancies from me as a person.

That was just 1 little example. I have tons... but I hope that made a little bit of sense!

The app let me attempt to log in once, and now after hard restarting it, it’s not proceeding past the splash screen.

I’m on an iPhone SE 3rd Gen running iOS 16.1.

Hmm so when you logged in you couldn't move past the splash screen the first time? I can take a look at our backend to see what the issue may be, but if you'd like we can communicate via our support email at support@shimmer.care to help get this issue resolved sooner

Seems to have resolved itself now, appreciate the follow up.

I'm glad it's working now. Thank you so much for checking us out and signing up!

That’s what I need, another task lol

lol :(

I feel you

However... we definitely try to be more than that! Here are some of the #1 benefits our members have cited: - Someone who understands - A safe space to talk about ADHD stuff - Guidance - Discovery of new tools & systems and someone to think of them for/with me - Accountability to do the things I said I'd do - A way to verbalize what I intend to do so they can better get done

Congrats on the launch!

Thank you!!

hello

hi :)

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