Comment by KaiserPro | Hacker News Reader

Comment by KaiserPro | Hacker News Reader

oi hent had that praablem boh. I cun talk loike I do at hum, withoout much hoohar.[1]

I have lost my "cuntree" accent, because that shit is a far bigger impediment to getting a job than actual class. (and in some cases race, but thats more complex)

but, for those who are outside of the UK and want to understand, its hard to translate. There are three things that you are judged on here in the UK, and they are all sort of related to class:

o Your clothes

o your attitude

o your accent

All of these are proxies for class. The most important thing to be aware of is that race is not normally a signifier for class. to use a recent example:

Rishi, our new prime minister, is posh as fuck. Posher, but not by much, than Liz truss. However less posh than Boris, as he is a no fooling aristocrat.

If we compare Rishi to Priti Patel, former Home secretary, who is middle-middle class at best. The differentiator is accent, not wealth. Rishi is richer than the king, but thats not why he's posh.

That is not to say that race is not a factor. its just nowhere near as big of a thing as it is in america.

The advantage is that you can change your class, its much harder to change your race. However your class at the time of your birth leaves an inprint/set of habits that are difficult to overcome. I do know someone who was raised on a london estate with a strong SAAAAAF LAAANDEN accent, who now is a QC/KC (senior lawyer) and has a received pronunciation accent. It wasnt until I met her parents and sister that I realised how much she'd changed.

[1] https://youtu.be/Feb-CdHBXc8?t=114 Although the mum has quite a soft central norfolk possibly norwich accent.

I find that UK businessmen tend to always first look at your shoes, and I have seen peoples behaviours change based on the type, perceived exclusivity and cost of the shoes. "Suits should look decent, but the shoes makes the man" is what I found to be true.

Are foreigners assigned a class too or is it a native thing only?

You aren't assigned one, its just a thing people pick up on. Everywhere has it to some degree, for example "White trash" in the US compared to "Frat boys".

> for example "White trash" in the US compared to "Frat boys".

As someone who grew up in the U.S., those have a pretty large overlap to me

Like gaijins in Japan, foreigners in UK are not typically expected to participate in the system at all.

I spent the last 15 years in London and I strongly disagree. Not only are foreigners judged (perhaps subconsciously) on how British they can be, where you came from initially matters a great deal as well, which is why I worked on loosing my Eastern European accent.

That being said, over those 15 years, I was only openly discriminated against once.

Naa, you're expected to queue.

if you go to the countryside, you will be treated as a rare and unusual person of status. but you still have to queue.

That's not the class system, lol.

I had a think about this.

Example: our PM, a man of Indian heritage (though British) who speaks RP.

An Indian man with a really strong accent is going to be judged as being significantly lower status.

I think it'd be the same pretty much across the scale. Like imagining a Polish software developer vs a builder and the latter would probably have a rougher accent.

A strong southern American accent, etc.

as a German guy who had the outside look in living in the UK for a while, not really. A lot of the markers of class that Brits are used to picking up just don't really apply.

That said I found it absolutely wild how much of a sixth sense Brits have to figure out where someone hails from. And also the extent to which people unlearn behaviors.

Yes and no.

A french person of any colour or location is instantly stylish and metropolitan. It doesn't matter if you come from the slums of Paris or Marseille, or some 4 house village in the middle, you, as a french person represent fashion, food, cutting remarks and wine.

Germany: (dont mention the war) represent punctuality, lack of humour, process engineering. Artists are not german.

Italian: hand waving, sun glasses, food.

USA: crassness with a lack of class (which is subtly different from being working class)

Japanese: The person you are speaking to is from a long an famous line of culturally important families.

Now, those are the fun ones. This is where it gets a bit dicey, so please don't think I share these opinions. these are illustrative generalisations

Eastern europeans: Imagine you are a family that has the same name as the villiage you live near. You own an estate, its been in the family for years, and you have labourers that have also been with the family for years. You hold them in high esteem, but they are very much working class. THats how they are viewed. "useful working class"

Anyone from the indian subcontinent(pakistan, india, bangladesh) or looks like they are from there (see Ugandan expulsion) with a non received pronunciation accent, will generally be treated as working class. Its not universal, but its a strong assumption. Think small shop owner, pharmacist, etc etc etc.

North african: Good question not sure

west african: Instantly assume they are from an estate in lAAANDEN.

East african: Also not sure.

yikes.

> ...not sure... Also not sure.

Well, you are being quite polite here. Some people would say "working class", and some would suggest the contrary.

Which in it's self is an interesting point, britians are wonderfully crap at spotting class in other nations.

But to your other point, yes, I am deliberately avoiding writing that viewpoint down....

>Eastern europeans: Imagine you are a family that has the same name as the villiage you live near. You own an estate, its been in the family for years, and you have labourers that have also been with the family for years. You hold them in high esteem, but they are very much working class. THats how they are viewed. "useful working class"

There are, of course, two kinds of Eastern Europeans. There's the kind you mention, and there's the kind that own everything.

Luckily for the British, they're easy to differentiate based on the amount of fur accessories.

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