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Comment by lr4444lr | Hacker News Reader

Yeah, because more senior workers eventually have kids, and kids need a proper morning wake up, and child care doesn't run until 10 PM.

Don't like it? There are lots of industries with nighttime work or extensive travel obligations.

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I've seen a lot of research (such as [1]) showing that kids waking up early is actually detrimental to them. I feel the causality goes in pretty much the reverse direction that you're implying: the children are forced to get up early to go to school because their parents need to be free of them early and their parents need to be free of them early because they are forced to be at work early.

[1]: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2820578/

Define: kid.

Parent wrote “having kids” and take this from a father of a 5 and 2 year old it’s: “daddy cheezy eggz!!!” at 530am no matter what.

I read this three times and I still don’t know what your comment was supposed to say or mean.

I think they mean: the studies showing bad outcomes from waking up 'kids' early are specifically about teenagers. Little kids get up very early, and the schedules of parents have to account for this.

Children wake up early and you need to wake up with them, feed them nurture them. They'll take you out of your sleep. Actually waking up is on you.

Take it from the father of a 4 year old and a 2 year old, my kids aren't awake until after 8am.

Because, it turns out, children are like other people and vary!

I had a quick skim and I couldn't see anything about what is defined as early and at what age is something early?

That is talking about adolescents (10-19) not kids.

I agree that teenagers should be able to start school later but kids are definitely early birds.

Also because every book insists tucking your kids in at 8pm.

> Yeah, because more senior workers eventually have kids, and kids need a proper morning wake up, and child care doesn't run until 10 PM.

Which do you think came first, jobs that start in the morning or child care that start in the morning?

Do you think it's ok for kids to be in child care until 10pm?

Depends when they start. Depends why they're there. Depends on the child care.

Being in child care at 10pm isn't inherently any better or worse than being in child care at 10am. It's all relative.

No it isn’t. The sun isn’t a social construct. As much as people here want to disconnect from nature and reality. Some things are still rooted in real world unchangeable nature.

If that was the shift I was working, what choice would I have?

I think children, and higher order mammals in general needing significant sunlight for optimal health and early growth/development came way before night owls.

Jobs that start in the morning. Farm work for example, those jobs have been around a very long time. Nice to have someone watch the kids, but they came with you to work if necessary. Modern factory and desk jobs are fairly recent inventions.

Doesn't matter. We are here now. If you can get society as a whole to change working and school hour, I will too. In the mean everything is organized around these hours. If you have kids or work with people who have kids, you have no choice.

and that is the overall point of the article.

Hm, I think this is backwards; there's plenty of evidence that we wake up kids way too early. Really, school schedules are as they are to fit around work schedules, not the other way around.

https://www.cdc.gov/sleep/features/schools-start-too-early.h...

Adolescents are only "children" in the modern social sense. Young children don't have that shift, and sunlight is important for them: https://parentingscience.com/kids-need-daylight/

Are the "more senior workers" with the clout to set the work schedule the ones that have pre-adolescent children, though? That would be one hell of a coincidence, and doesn't match up with parents-of-young-children I know.

Except that school hours end at 3:30 around me and I don’t understand what I would be supposed to do if I continued having my current schedule

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