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Comment by uptown | Hacker News Reader

"He is of the generation that believed that design should last and that it shouldn’t be replaced every year,” says Sudjic

I'm still using a 27" 2012 iMac that, to me, looks as good as anything new they've produced. Ten years for a desktop machine sounds like a "win" for for both design and longevity.

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His later involvement in the Apple lineup really didn’t paint him in a positive light, if we remember the atrocities with the “trashcan” Mac Pro, the notorious butterfly keyboard, the questionable Touch Bar, etc. They were all highly unpopular changes that were all rolled back once he left the company.

Apple hasn’t made a decent mouse for more than twenty years starting with the hockey puck.

I think this is very much a matter of personal preference. To me, the "Magic Mouse" is the best pointing device I have ever used on a computer, and was actually my original reason for switching to Macs. I do understand that many people see it different, of course.

I worked with an engineer who didn't like Macs. I don't prefer the "Magic Mouse" however I bought it when it first came out and showed it to him. Not long after that I saw him using the mouse and he used it for years. He absolutely loved it.

On the other hand they have the best trackpads, period. I don't even use a mouse when working with an external monitor anymore, I use the external trackpad from Apple instead, and so does most of my coworkers.

I was a big fan of the magic mouse. Doesn't work well outside of apple devices so when I switched to linux I had to find something else.

> Apple hasn’t made a decent mouse for more than twenty years starting with the hockey puck.

I think that's largely fair (although I do think the magic mouse is pretty nice). But in their defense, they make such great trackpads that many people prefer to use those over a mouse.

Apple gets a lot right and a lot of small things horribly wrong. Apple’s mice are a good example but nothing is as bad as the all black Apple TV remote. I’ve never hated a small device with such a passion. One wrong touch and you’re in remote hell.

Agree about the mice. For remote - try Roku. Their design is tip top.

I don't mind the form factor of the newest remote; however, it is slim and small enough that it regularly gets lost in odd places. An audible FindMy integration would be very welcome.

The newest remote is a night and day difference. I spent good money on 2 of them for older Apple TVs. Well worth the upgrade.

Luckily, they fixed the remote a few years ago. But yeah, the previous remote was not good (but the one before it was good as well).

The Mighty Mouse is, imho, one of the best mice made. It feels great in the hand, supports three button operation, has vertical and horizontal scrolling, and side buttons. The wireless version has a nice weight and uses AA batteries (no charger needed).

Unfortunately, the scroll ball eventually gets gummed up and the housing is glued together making regular maintenance impossible.

I loved the hockey puck mouse. I could fling it about with great accuracy. I held onto it until the touch sensitive magic mice made me switch.

I've never understood why it's so hated. I think you were all "holding it wrong". :)

It’s worth remembering that the trash can Mac Pro was an engineering bet on a new ecosystem, specifically external GPUs, which were made possible by the incredibly high speed of the Lightning port/cable.

That ecosystem of accessories did not develop as Apple hoped it would, which essentially stranded the Mac Pro design and made it look (in retrospect) like a stupid design. And Apple kept hoping the ecosystem would develop, so they waited too long to replace it.

Apple has done great with many similar bets (USB, FireWire, removing optical disk drives). This one just didn’t work out.

Wasn’t just external. Remember it shipped with two internal AMD GPUs. The real issue was AND GPUs were close to useless for any GP-GPU work at the time because of CUDAs dominance and Apples lack of commitment to OpenCL at the time.

I really disagree about the Touchbar.

I don't understand the negativity against it.

Even though I don't use a Mac, the touch bar is extremely useful, you can click buttons through it, scroll videos, have per-app shortcuts, text suggestions and much more, it really felt like a magical experience.

I was disappointed when Apple removed the touch bar, they could've just added the function row without removing it.

You accidentally touched it ALL the time leading to random functions being called. I had to turn it off. A capacitive bar right on top of the physical buttons you use all the time was not a fantastic implementation. Apple reverting it is testament to that.

I do not recall ever accidentally touching it in the two years I had one. However I did not like it replacing the Fn and Escape keys. Having a section of contextual keys and controls was nice but not to replace the top row.

I found it the exact opposite - I very nearly never touched it. My problem with it was you need to look at it to interact with it, which meant you weren’t looking at the screen. It felt like someone designed it and said “but that won’t be a problem, because you can have the bar show you what you need” without considering it’s impossible to see what’s under your finger. If they’d somehow put it at the same angle as the screen, so you could interact with it and while focusing on the screen, it could’ve been amazing - for me at least.

Happy Touch Bar enjoyer here, however it did not receive much love from 3rd party software developers and only single hardware iteration by Apple. MacBook Pro 13" 2022 still has Touch Bar, so it is still living, but more like a zombie.

I think the short lifespan is a big part of why no body supported it. It only lasted one generation.

One generation? The new 13” MacBook Pro with M2 still has it.

Its still the same design

Touch Bar had one revision, so two versions. First with software Esc key, second has hardware Esc key.

Iirc it bumped up the price of the MBP and was something I would definitely decline if it were an option. But it wasn't. So for me it was a ham handed excuse to get a few hundred more out of me.

Didn't hate it, but didn't care for it either. Happy it's gone.

I mean the macbook didn't get any cheaper now, did it?

No but at least it got way faster. Even if there were no price difference, I think I'd still go for no touchbar.

I used a trashcan Mac Pro up until this year when I replaced it with an M1 Pro Macbook. It was a great machine. Fast, silent, just did it's job and looked cool while doing it. It was like I was living my childhood dream of having a Silicon Graphics workstation.

Lol, that’s a weird childhood dream, which I also had. Ever since I saw a flight simulator running on an SGI Indigo, and I started speccing out an “affordable” O2. That was some good 90s industrial design.

I just replaced my 2009 cheese grater Mac Pro with a new machine. That was a timeless design, both inside and out, which I can’t blame Ive alone for abandoning. Apple has long internalized that expandable-monolithic tension between the two Steves.

The keyboard didn't work, mine broke, but the direction was right imo. Not enough testing I guess.

Thinner and lighter is better for a device you carry round 24/7.

Was Ive responsible for the drive for “thinner an thinner” as it is sometimes claimed?

Less ports, worse keyboard, no MagSafe, etc. everything power users did not fancy.

I’m sure some of that was done in collaboration with bean counters

And yet, those decisions were reverted after he left Apple, so are the bean counters really at fault here?

Yes and it was great. I hope you enjoy your extra ports so I can lug around my heavier more cumbersome devices with me, all day every day.

I think they've made a huge mistake in catering to the nerds rather than pushing the envelope for the average consumer. Never heard a civilian complain about the ports on their mac.

Unfortunately I have yet to meet a person who enjoyed the butterfly keyboard. Maybe I am too much surrounded by military people.

The person you are replying to said nothing about the butterfly keyboard, only ports. So I don't think they disagree with you on the keyboard part.

To me, the transparent bondi blue original iMac looked better than the pastel shades on the new iMac.

It's not all rose-tinted past however: the original had a mouse that was hard to use all the time, not merely while recharging as the new one.

The removal of Target Display Mode from the iMac was a huge mistake, and has probably created a huge quantity of e-waste. But I bet it sold a lot of iMacs that otherwise would have been Mac Minis, so Apple don't care.

I just picked up an acrylic, 23” Cinema HD display (https://everymac.com/monitors/apple/studio_cinema/specs/appl...), and it is stunning. It even has a higher resolution screen than most 23” monitors available today (1920x1200).

I’m not sure I personally like it as much as the aluminum displays that followed it, but it is such a head turner that’s almost like an art piece in addition to its function.

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