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Comment by simion314 | Hacker News Reader

>Agree that you shouldn’t swim with your phone, but Apple not covering liquid damage is a business decision that doesn’t tell me whether the glue and gaskets serve a valid waterproofing purpose.

What will you define as "valid"?

Using logic I can only conclude that glue is not used or is not effective for water proofing OR there are as you called "other business decision" involved here.

Your alternative means that glue works but Apple uses the water detection stickers to refuse warranty in bad faith, the battery exploded because it was a bad batch => the water sticker is red, sorry no warranty for you!

Anyway the phones are not in reality water proof,so this excuse should not be used by fanbous, let Apple lawyers use it, they are actually paid for it and might even know the reason it is used.

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Engineers use gaskets between two surfaces all the time in an attempt to prevent fluids from passing. Some of those gaskets will fail. Sometimes the failure is because the mating surfaces have been flexed in use. Sometimes it's because the device has been disassembled and reassembled. Sometimes there was too much pressure differential applied. Sometimes they're just defective. Yet, they are still serving the intended purpose of improving the resistance to water passing.

I don't see it as an indictment for Apple to put the pink stickers inside devices. I had a battery replacement warranty denied on my Macbook; said there was water intrusion. I was initially outraged until I recalled the time that I did actually get the laptop significantly wet (partially submerged) and quickly drained and dried it out and felt relief that "Oh, phew! It still works..." And it did still work and only several months later I noticed an unusual battery drain.

Your logic isn't really valid. It could be that the glue is indeed effective in facilitating waterproofing and was put in place for that reason, however not to the extent that Apple wants to make any promises that it will survive being submerged.

I don't know what the truth is, I just disagree with your conclusion based on the logic you present.

Sure, I can't prove that glue is 0% effective, maybe monkey dung is better , you can't prove it either.

What I can prove is that "glue helps you swim with your iPhone is bullshit". In fact logic would tell us that glue is created for sticking things together, if you want water proofing you would use something designed for that purpose.

If you can prove that statement, please do so.

OK, Prop1: Glue is not effective (or 100% effective if you interpret this word as a scale)

I linked above an Apple link, and you can find examples where iPhones will get refused warranty because of water damage. This proves that GLUE is less then 1oo% effective.

q.e.d

Prop2 Monkey shit might be better then glue.

Since glue <100% and I used the word "might" then there is a chance that monkey shiot after a monkey eats a special food is better.

q.e.d.

My point is that is a terrible excuse if you demand me to prove that glue is exactly 0% effective, I don't have the lab to prove it but A[ple that has the lab decided not to offer you water proof warranty, so either you are happy with

1 glue , is not effective enough for Apple to offer a warranty

2 glue is effective enough but Apple has some sinister business reason to reject your warranty if their water sticker turns on.

Why do you limit this to Apple? Samsung and Sony will take extra care to apply the glue properly when fixing your phone, and they will replace your device if their glue fails to do its job.

Why are they doing it?

I never seen Samsung fanboys inventing fantastic stories to defend their brand. Where with Apple I seen tons, remember the issue with the keyboards ? I seen here an HN people accusing users that they are slobs, or trolls and that the keyboard is perfect, one fanboys was creating a fantasy where Apple had a giant lab with mechanical robot hands typing on a keyboard simulating real world usage and there is no way Apple did a mistake. (where are you naive Apple fanboy that things robotic people are typing on hundreds of keyboards so Apple can release perfect stuff???)

When Samsung or Google phones have issue I never see such fantasies beeing created to defend a giant company that has payed people to do that.

OK, let's take a different tack here. Define an amount of money sufficient to buy 5 iPhones, pay for the time/effort to run the test, and leave some profit on top. You and I each put up that amount of money and we test 5 stock iPhones against 5 iPhones with the glue/gaskets removed in some water intrusion tests in a swimming pool and then disassemble them to inspect.

If the glue isn't effective (your premise), I'd expect the phones to behave broadly similarly and you win the bet.

If the glue is effective, I'd expect the 5 no-glue phones to experience more water intrusion and I win the bet.

How about $50K each, plus $5K each for phones, plus $5K each on top to be donated to the FSF? If there is no difference (or if the no-gasket phones outperform), you keep all 10 phones, my $50K, and are out $5K for phones and $5K to FSF. If the glued phones outperform, I keep the 10 phones, your $50K, and am out $5K for phones and $5K to FSF. Either way, the FSF gets $10K. (If you dislike the FSF, pick another remotely reasonable charity and if you win, both of us donate $5K to that charity.)

I'm sure we can find some tech YouTuber to help us film and broadcast the outcome publicly.

You in?

Your experiment is invalid, I did not proven that glue is 0% effective , so I already gave yout he claim that glue might be say 55 effective and maybe monkey shit is 6% and some water repelling fats could be 50% effective.

It is Apple fans that ppretend that glue is used for water proofing while Apple claims the phone is not water proof. So this fanboys need to prove the woprld and to Apple that glue purpose is to let you swim with your phone.

You said "What I can prove is that 'glue helps you swim with your iPhone is bullshit'".

This wager seems like an easy $40K, $10K to the charity of your choice, plus uncountable value in internet points if that's right.

*-https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33404844

The experiment will prove that you can swim but only in that exact same conditions, temperature, water salt content , humidity in air.

Why are you invested in this to contradict Apple documentation ? search this link for "swiming" https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT207043 , seems there is damage in many cases, maybe is not imediate so guys like you that change their phones often d not see the consequences.

So, if I won the bet, we would only conclude that under those specific conditions that your claim wasn't upheld? In other words, under those conditions, the glue wasn't bullshit with respect to swimming, but is under most other conditions?

You have no idea how often I change phones, but the fact that I'm well-experienced with changing batteries on family phones that I own may give you some hints as to the frequency thereof. (I use an XS Max from 2018.)

Whenever you create a premise that both A and ~A are are true, you can base any argument for anything on it. How can a glue be both effective at waterproofing and ineffective at waterproofing?

How can antibiotics work, yet people still die from infections? How can airbags work and yet people still die in car crashes? How can ABS work and yet…

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