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Comment by tchaffee | Hacker News Reader

The judge that convicted Lula was found to be biased against Lula and the charges against Lula were thrown out.

"On 9 June 2019, The Intercept published leaked Telegram messages between the judge in Lula's case, Sérgio Moro, and the Operation Car Wash lead prosecutor, Deltan Dallagnol, in which they allegedly conspired to convict Lula to prevent his candidacy for the 2018 presidential election"

That judge then went on to be appointed by Bolsonaro.

Perhaps the locals cheering on Lula aren't as convinced as you are about him being corrupt.

He is also popular because his Bolso Familia program wiped out huge amounts of hunger. Poverty in Brazil dropped by a dramatic 27% during Lula's first term. So of course he has supporters.

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Lula was a popular president in his first term, and his zero hunger programme was effective, but his annulled conviction for corruption was essentially him getting off on a technicality. All the evidence against him and his cronies is real, albeit now inadmissible.

None of which is to say that Bolsonaro is the hero of this story. It’s a proper Kodos and Kang situation.

If you call technicality the finding (confirmed by justice) of thousands of messages between the judge of the case and the prosecution plotting how to convict him despite nonexistent evidence, then yes.

The disgraced judge then immediately turned to use his new fame to enter politics. A complete sham.

I want Lula to win, but only because I want Bolsonaro out. To call Lula Innocent like the left does here is absurd. You had huge corporations returning billions of stolen Reais to the government, some even took out whole page ads in the big newspapers to apologize and admit their guilt, and yet the left still maintains that the whole operation to go after them (these corporations were in bed with Lula's party) a farse. Completely ridiculous. The left here acts just as dishonestly as the right.

The left does not maintain that. Many people were charged and convicted. You can find a rare person claiming these things, but the vast majority of the left believes the corruption happened. Lula's involvement however is debated.

What are you talking about? I live here, I know dozens of people who say openly that Lula is innocent and that the whole Lava Jato operation was a farce. This is pretty common thought in the more radical left here.

I live here too. I already said that Lula is the exception.

Yes, the more radical left does say that. At least now you're being more specific and more accurate. Your original claim was far more sweeping. And wrong.

Supporters of the PT party number in the tens of millions. What percentage of them would you say have the opinion that the Lava-Jato operation was a farce? 9 out of 10 PT supporters make this claim, that it was a farce. The majority of 'the left' claims this. The people you're referring to is not 'the left'. You said that it's a rare person who says this, which is very, very wrong.

> What percentage of them would you say have the opinion that the Lava-Jato operation was a farce?

That depends on what details you ask for. If you ask if them if Moro was biased and corrupt, they can simply point to the court ruling that he was.

If you ask them if the politicians who went to jail were all innocent, you'll get far far fewer people supporting that idea.

The details are important.

> 9 out of 10 PT supporters make this claim,

Please share your source for this information.

> The people you're referring to is not 'the left'.

They are. When my friends tell me they are politically left, it's not up to you to decide they aren't the "real" left, whatever that might be.

> it's not up to you to decide they aren't the "real" left

Sorry, but sometimes it is. When Bolsonaro's crowd started caliming that the Nazi Party was a leftist party because it had "Socialit" in its name, I can comfortably decide that no, the National Socialist Party was not socialist. When my friends tell me that they are against socialized medical care and that people should also pay for their children's education, yet he says that he's a "leftist", I can comfortably decide that no, he's not.

You don't know my friends. I do. When my friends say they are left and believe in socialized medicine and other leftist policy, I can comfortably decide they are left. Also note: no true Scotsman logical fallacy.

Did you come up with a source for your claim that 9 out of 10 PT members will say Lava Jato was a complete farse and that no one was guilty of corruption?

You're right, the majority of Petistas approve of the Lava-Jato operation. Only the rare one will condemn it as a farce. Again, whatever...

It's safe to say you don't have a source and just made your numbers up.

And you just asked me in another thread for an answer without sarcasm and yet here you are being sarcastic. One rule for us, another rule for you. Whatever indeed.

What do you mean he was popular in his first term? He left office in his second term with an 87% approval rating.

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