Why I Told CBS Corporation To Sue Me Without Wearing A Shirt
sebastianmarshall.com
sebastianmarshall.com
Summary: It seems he pissed off his publisher and his agent recommended he find another publisher and pay back what the publisher forwarded him. He doesn't think he'll be able to find another publisher or sell that many books, so he took off his shirt and made a long video in which he continually chastises his agent, rips up some of his money and rants about how the industry is crumbling and the internet will destroy them.
Correct summary: I think the publishing industry is a cartel that abuses their editors, copy-editors, writers, authors, and so on. They're anti-modern, treat people bad, and threaten them. I'm taking a principled stand against them, and already walked away from $50,000 to do it.
If you disagree, just say so instead of being passive aggressive. Then real dialog happens.
Edit: This has been upvoted, and then downvoted. Hold on a second - this guy mis-summarizes in a snarky way instead of just saying what he thinks. He could write, "He's arrogant" (perhaps) or "I disagree with his style" (your call) or "I think publishing is awesome and in the right here" (you're crazy if you think so) - but instead, he mis-summarizes what's going on. That's basically the definition of passive-aggressive: Not saying what you really think, and being hostile anyways.
I say, "Hey, say what you think and get a dialog going" (I addressed some thoughtful points below, and answered them all) - and you upvote him with his petty snark, and not the guy saying "Hey, if you disagree, say it and we can discuss"? Wouldn't you like a more honest world? No?
Do you want an actual, serious answer?
So, I try to always get at the subtext of people's words. You never 100% know for sure what anyone else is thinking, but you can put some intelligent guesses on it, and then ask people what they're actually thinking and see if you're right. If you practice, you get better at it. Figuring out what people are thinking when they say something is just a skill like any other, and can be improved by practice.
His tone there ignores all the points that were made, and focuses on the most petty interpretation of my actions. I had research numbers, trends, talked about marketing/distribution shifts, whatever... so what's he really mean with his snark? I'm being really open here, maybe it's offensive, but here's how I analyzed it - I think the emotion is roughly "I don't like this!!" and he doesn't analyze why. He then takes the worst possible interpretation, and puts that up in to assert some sort of... aloof superiority? It's hard to put great words on this, but he's basically writing off everything I said about trends, distribution, agency, everything with a hand wave.
Why do that? Because he had some negative emotional reaction, of course. But instead of asking himself, "Why do I dislike this?" and saying that, he just snarks out and gets passive aggressive. Honestly - again, hyper-honesty - I think it's pretty weak and pathetic. Call me arrogant, say my tone is wrong, disagree with my analysis, call me a dick, say my points are out of touch, whatever, honesty is cool and we can work with. But ["I don't like this!!" -> Snark] is... well, it's weak, don't you think?
I don't know exactly what you were alluding to with your claim that I wasn't saying what I really think, but I really was attempting to report what happened in the video and summarize it. Here is what my summary said:
1) It seems he pissed off his publisher
2) His agent recommended he find another publisher and pay back what the publisher forwarded him.
3) He doesn't think he'll be able to find another publisher or sell that many books
4) He took off his shirt and made a long video in which he continually chastises his agent
5) He rips up some of his money
6) He rants about how the industry is crumbling and will be destroyed by the internet
I really did believe all six of those things happened in the video. Which was I incorrect about, and what do you think I "really" believe but wouldn't write?
Well, I read it as petty, snarky, and passive-aggressive...
> and just explain which part of my two sentence summary was "incorrect"?
See, that's it. You could just say "My summary was accurate" if you thought so - but it wasn't. You're getting caught up in trivial details, and leaving the biggest parts out. And then you say, "Show me what's not true!!"
Again, it's just not a good style. You could do better.
The reason people aren't trying to start a dialog with you on your terms is that you don't seem rational. You seem unhinged. I saw your original open letter, and I thought the same. Based on these and your previous harangue against your team, I think you should consider seeking help.
Somewhere around his mention of accomplishing super-human feats and cyclothymia, I connected him to the "Stop Being a Fucking Joker" rant.
I look forward to reading additional commentary about op's post and Mr. Marshall; but, I can't help but feel a distaste for his seemingly common use of public shaming. Perhaps a more effective and less aggressive form of communication would allow him to avoid these public spats. Then again, perhaps it is all part of a very effective pr campaign. After all, I now know who this guy is and am able to identify his writing.
First, yes.
Second, I've never released contact info or identifying details of anyone on my side - an employee, investor, or partner. Ever. It's always obfuscated pretty well - you have to protect people.
Third, everyone in an organization or the specific people will know, but that's what you get with me. Radical honesty/transparency... it's awesome, it's so liberating, and people are thoroughly informed that that's how it goes with me. It's not for everyone, that's for sure
Fourth, I'm gentler/nicer to people who are quiet, etc - you obviously don't hear about that... I try to communicate in a person's desired style, which is aggressive for driver-type people, but I'm more creative/relaxed with creatives, and very calm with calm people.
Fifth, the publishing industry's bullshit needs to end, and I need to air this out publicly. It's the only leverage anyone has. Merlin Mann's "Cranking" essay is what gave me confidence to stand up publicly, take a lot of abuse, and look to improve things.
Thank you for sharing your honest thoughts here.
I certainly plan to read through more of your postings and archives.
Most of all, I am glad to hear you adjust the message to the audience. I would expect nothing less from a marketing savvy individual but it is still comforting to read.
Good luck with your fight, it is unfortunate that so many industries continue to cling to outdated business practices and models.
But it's definitely pegging my crazyometer.
http://www.sebastianmarshall.com/an-open-letter-to-simon-and...
I think it was raw, honest, and necessary. Maybe too mean? But again, it was 100% true.
> If it's "pay back the advance plus a million dollars because we feel like being unreasonable", that's a completely different story of course.
Ah, you missed the context. My agent was telling me that if I don't shut up and agree to terms immediately, I have to pay back his share of the advance to the publishing house. And I negotiated him up after he signed me from the standard 15% to 25% because I like people to be well-played. He didn't address when things were bad, forced bad terms in the contract to go through, didn't negotiate in my favor, and now threatened me... the whole industry is scummed up, man. People need to know what really happens - there's lots of stories like this, but most get hushed up.
> But it's definitely pegging my crazyometer.
Yeah, mine too. But don't you have to be a little crazy to walk away from a guaranteed $42,900 and fight a multi-billion dollar corporation with a massive legal team?
A little less political correctness, a little more uninhibited behavior and a healthy splash of controversy are always welcome, as far as I'm concerned.
Yeah, that delivery doesn't "work" for everybody, but some people need a little shock-value to capture their attention. And some people are inspired by seeing others show the willingness to step outside the perceived boundaries of their world.
Go Sebastian!
(Also, I don't get why you chose to link violent behaviour with mental health problems. People with mental health problems are much more likely to be the victims of violence than the perpetrators.)
I have been guilty of this kind of behavior in the past. And I can totally relate to Sebastian here. In bureaucracies it is modus operandi for people in the top to count on fear and "decency" of people beneath them to not call out their bullshit.
In a court nobody can afford to comment on the emperors lack of clothes, since they are dependent on the system. But when an outsider comes as Sebastian did in this case - they have no power over him and this outsider has two options. He can walk away and solve his problem for himself - or he can call out the BS (risking some of his reputation on one end). Why? Because he is free of the influence of the court, thats what freedom means. You can be free as soon as you realize that you can do without the system, that you can forge your own system. You don't even need to be an outsider, just realize that freedom of mind is the ultimate freedom and that it cannot be taken away. You can have your body's freedom taken away, you can even get killed. But the freedom of the mind is the ultimate drug, the ultimate intoxication and the ultimate asset. And nobody can take it away.
Like he said, it is about treating people the way they want to be treated. It is also a winning strategy for an iterated prisoners dilemma - you offer cooperation, if they refuse - strike them into the ground.
What happened was that he "offered to save" the publishing industry, he has been around the block, seen other industries - but what he got in response was basically a "STFU NOOB!".
His response was pretty close as to what I would have done. When somebody wants to push me around with low blows, I get really upset. Especially if I am smarter and better prepared than they are. So if they want a dirty game - I will give them a dirty game. Hell I will show them state of the art in dirty.
And thats what Sebastian did.
Kudos to you Mr. Marshall!
p.s.: There is a lot of mental illness in the whole story, but Sebastian is not the one ill. Basically what Seb is doing is called Madman Theory (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madman_theory) and it is completely, totally rational.
Sebastian describes himself as having bipolar, and has said he is cyclothymic.
When I read the title, I thought he wanted them not to wear shirts when they sued him!
Edit: changed "you" to "him" and "he" after zbowler pointed out that the author is not the one who posted on HN
I feel sorry for his agent.
ebooks should make a lot of this easier and better and more efficient, but the workflow and tools don't appear to be there yet. And Sturgeon's Law (90% of everything is bullshit) is skewed to 98% with self-publishing.
It's interesting to note that Sebastian had this revelation after taking $65,000 of Simon & Schuester's money in advance for a 50,000 - 60,000 word book that he has not given them. (Weirdly, he's written 180,000 words, so why he doesn't just send that and get it edited down to 50k is confusing.)
Maybe I'm a jerk, maybe you want to defend how badly traditional publishing treats their authors and staff (do you really think they can't do better? much better?) - but yeah, I walked away from around $50k here, and the writing was already agreed by agent and editor to be excellent at that point.
Principled stand, man. Most people don't get it, can't get it. But I think things need to improve, so I'm going to try to force things to improve.
The fact that you wrote a multi-page rant about how much you hate working with them demonstrates that you're quitting for your own sake, not because of any "principles".
I disagree. How much would the world change if everyone started doing it tomorrow?
> you're quitting for your own sake, not because of any "principles".
We're already written. I told them they need to improve how they treat people, audit and remove bureaucracy, and do better for everyone to keep working with me.
I didn't ask for any terms for myself. Just doing better in general, modernizing, and treating everyone better. I probably could have gotten my personal goals met easily with a personal letter, instead I'm in a public fight.
You can be as cynical as you want, but I walked away from $50k, a solid credential, and a lot of open doors to try to improve an important-but-badly-flawed-industry.
Anyways. Keep your cynicism and skepticism. I admire it, actually, and the open dialog. But if you change your mind later, will you write it publicly? A lot more is going to happen going forwards.
It was well-spent.
Not that I give a damn, quite frankly, about the publishing industry. (I probably should, but I don't.) But the "shut up or we'll threaten to sue you - and just the threat will ruin you for a decade" meme is popping up all over the place (patent trolls, illegitimate MAFIAA takedowns taking years to resolve, and so on), and too often people go the logical route, sit down, and try to piece together their new life from under the boot. Every batshit-crazy shirtless nut we have is one more good role model for how to deal with this brand of thuggery.
So thanks, and keep it up.
That's not what's happening here. Perhaps you could point me to what's been said that makes you think it is what's happening?
I think not wearing a shirt makes it: -less likely I will share it -harder to assign credibility (even though I have already read your work and know your smart) -harder to focus on what your saying and finish video
These shirted videos are awesome http://www.sebastianmarshall.com/my-approach-to-business
The manic part, not the douchebag part (I"m pretty sure you're beyond help on that one).