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Comment by soperj | Hacker News Reader

> We have sent experts to the relevant tax offices etc, but the ONLY guy who can handle it is never there, refuses to deal with it, then says we need to go somewhere else - where we are sent back etc etc. Sent around in circles, basically - with everybody recognizing the money is in fact owed...

That sounds exactly like they're needing a bribe, but you're too rooted in western ways of doing things that you don't realize it.

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US citizens bribing foreign officials can be convicted of a felony under (I think it is) The Foreign Corrupt Practices act. Whether DOJ chases down three-developer scale stuff, or has only the staff for multi-zillion class bribes, I don't know.

Paying an official to do something they were going to do (eventually) anyway does not qualify as a bribe.

citation please :-)

To me...if I have to pay someone to do their assigned job it seems like a bribe to me https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bribe (using money to affect the conduct of a person)

>citation please :-)

15 U.S. Code § 78dd–1(b)

Maybe. From the multitude of FCPA training I’ve had to endure, you can pay to have processing expedited if there is an official policy for it. You cannot pay $1K to the head of the office because he hints that it will speed things up.

Technically, you’re not even protected if you hire a local agent to do all of this for you.

Jesus. Please no one take that as legal advice. Paying a bribe to get preferential treatment (even if that treatment is just to get the person to do their actual job) is a bribe none the less.

Paying an official to perform their job (perform a "routine governmental action") is a facilitating payment and is an exemption from the prohibitions of the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/15/78dd-1

The point with a facilitating payment is that you've done everything that's actually required by law to e.g. get a business license and the official is still giving you the run-around, you are allowed to pay them. It doesn't apply in cases that relate to paying decision makers for contracts, for example.

If you're thinking about doing this, you should absolutely consult a lawyer, but the post above is wrong on the general construction of the law.

Yeah, dude doesn't deserve getting downvoted as hard as he is. Neither the "You'll get killed by FCPA" nor the "FCPA lets you do this" comments are legal advice. But what you're saying is, in fact, true. It allows US companies to continue to be competitive in places where this stuff is expected.

It's an obvious exemption in FCPA that would be surprising to the majority of people, hence why I posted the gist of it. That earns you a "Jesus" by clueless people on HN these days.

That's interesting. In the UK these would also be considered bribes. From a quick search the US and Australia are the the only countries with this principle.

The problem is, as a foreigner, you may have been misled to think what you're asking for is legal, when in actuality it is not.

it does sound a lot like a bribe to me.

There have been many smaller companies charged with FPCA violations and even in cases where no charges were brought, the investigation cost the company enough to basically put it out of business.[0]

[0]: https://fcpablog.com/2017/05/24/hyperdynamics-another-fcpa-i...

If you are paying them to do something they're supposed to do but refuse to do in a timely manner, that may be legal. It's called a facilitating payment or grease payment, and is an exception to the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act.

Ask a real lawyer, obviously.

Yeah, I remember this from my compliance training because it was so ridiculous. It is just a type of bribe, but since it has a special name and a carve out it is potentially not a problem!

I think it's a distinction that matters, morally. A regular bribe is paying an official to do something the law says the official shouldn't do. Whereas grease money is essentially paying the official to follow the law and do their job properly. The latter rewards the official for their show of tactical incompetence, but at least it isn't paying them to break the law on your behalf. More like it's paying them to stop breaking the law.

As far as I can make out facilitation payments are a legal exception in US law, but they are illegal in Indian law. This is definitely in the ask a lawyer before you go making this kind of payment territory.

not just the us. most of europe has similar laws.

I probably would have been, if it had been myself. However, this was my local Indian director, who is very well versed in navigating Indian bureaucracy. They were just ignorant, completely disinterested in helding and wildly incompetent.

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