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Comment by pavlov | Hacker News Reader

My Quest Pro arrived yesterday. It’s the coolest new computer I’ve used since the iPad. They’re getting close to nailing the mixed reality form factor.

At the same time it feels like the Apple Lisa. Expensive hardware that’s clearly still not quite the end state, shipping with first-party software that’s barely past demo quality. There’s simply not very much to do on the Quest Pro so far, and the HoloLens trajectory suggests that real apps will be slow to arrive.

Still, it’s an entirely new style of computing and Meta has subsidized it by tens of billions of dollars already. I’ll try to enjoy it while it lasts.

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> It’s the coolest new computer I’ve used since the iPad.

It doesn't inspire much confidence in me to compare it to the product that everyone thought was cool when it came out but over a decade later, even the company making it still doesn't know exactly what it's for outside of a few niche use-cases.

Apple sold more than 500 million iPads over the product's first decade.

I never said it was a failure. But it's certainly a supplementary device for most people.

If all iPads disappeared off the face of the earth tomorrow, it wouldn't be nearly as big of a deal compared to if that happened with smartphones or laptops or PCs, etc.

Meta has a big hurdle to overcome to make success out of a device with no real practical use so far, and one that you have to strap to your face.

For many people, and maybe most younger people, PCs are a supplemental device. I know a few folks who have an iPad and a smartphone but no personal laptop. To your point, though, I think more do get by with just the phone.

For most of my family the iPad replaced their computer. Thankfully I no longer have to do tech support.

I second this. The ipad has become the computer for several in my family as well.

The watch and AirPods are also “accessory devices”. Most other companies would kill to have any of Apple’s divisions.

You’re living in a tech bubble my friend.

Many people have replaced their laptops and computers with an iPad because they only check email/Facebook/watch youtube/surf the web.

> still doesn't know exactly what it's for

It's a $30 billion a year business.

Maybe they know a little more than you think.

I understand the hardware manufacturer's business.

I just don't understand why humans buy them. Sure, they're neat, but there are a lot of neat things at that price point.

Because they serve the role of what used to often times filled by PCs. Turns out not everyone needs a PC and they also don’t want have to do everything on a tiny touchscreen. If they didn’t exist I think the alternative for many would be the Air.

This shouldn’t be hard to understand.

I don't know about other people, but it's the 2nd most useful device I own (after my laptop), and it is the device I use the most by far (if you look at the time I'm using it).

To me, an iPad is a notebook that's always with me, where I write down all my thoughts in my journal, practice writing and screenwriting, do task management and planning (most of that in Obsidian). I also watch video courses, listen to music, browse the internet, all the stuff everyone uses their mobile devices for.

Smartphone is too small for typing, and not as convenient, no other tablet is anywhere near as convenient to use. iPad mini is the perfect form factor for me.

I think they are probably very popular with old people, due to them being way easier to use and closer to a smartphone which they are probably most use too.

My parents have completely given up on laptop and own three iPads because they are easier to use and maintain. They don't break or have bugs are often which required them call me and having me come over to fix lol.

I gave my cousin who is in college my android tablet. She only uses a computer for typing documents. Everything else is done on the tablet. From research to communication and watching movies. It can do anything she wants to do. Most of my GUI apps have an iPad version, which works well when I'm far from home and I would rather not bring a laptop.

Anecdotally, my whole family has them for digital reading/browsing without the clunkiness of a laptop or the small screen of a phone. Mind you, iPad power users in my family are children or elderly folks who otherwise wouldn't be using a computer.

I use one exclusively for sitting on the toilet reading hn. Not joking.

When I’m not at work, I don’t want to touch a computer. My iPad is just there to let me watch videos, shitpost on Reddit, watch TikTok, send emails, etc.

Because combined with the apple pencil it's one of the best drawing / note taking / reading device ever made.

What? iPads have literally replaced computers and laptops for a huge segment of people.

Every boomer in my life has an iPad. They don’t own computers anymore.

I use an iPad as my main personal computer. It’s like what Google wants you to use a Chromebook for, but without the janky framerates. It’s the most pleasant web browsing device I’ve come across.

Did Apple and Microsoft know exactly what the PC was for in its early days? They certainly had their own ideas for it, but it was down to the rest of the world to decide that, ultimately.

Pretty sure the killer app was spreadsheets. IBM was international business machines after all, and PC were IBM clones.

Also word processing/publishing. Very clear applications with an existing market.

I was speaking to a high school teacher who said students come through her computer classes now having no idea how to type or use desktop operating systems because they're the first generation who have largely, and almost exclusively, been on iPad's and phones.

Spare me, what a pathetic insipid comment about something in every household, used by every age group and sells 7 of them every second. It’s such a silly comment I almost want to flag it.

Low effort comments like the one above have been getting more and more popular lately. The mindless bashing of technologies and products that generate billions of dollars yearly really distracts from otherwise highly informed discussions I enjoy on HN.

> Expensive hardware that’s clearly still not quite the end state, shipping with first-party software that’s barely past demo quality.

"Built for a Future That Still Isn't Here" is a headline I saw somewhere that resonates well with your comment.

"Built for a future that no one even wants or asked for"

I want metaverse content. Still waiting for the matrix.

Speak for yourself. I want solid VR and AR and everything past that. Why wouldn’t you?

You are going to have engineers using ten orders of magnitude more computational resources to open a text editor like they've been doing for 50 years. It's tech for the sake of tech until someone can come up with an actually novel use case that isn't just window dressing on stuff I can already do.

It also has a physical barrier that seems insurmountable - motion sickness-induced nausea. If even a small % of your users get nauseated when using it, the network effects fall apart completely. Zuck wants to use VR headsets for meetings, but what happens if one person can't use VR because it makes them nauseated? Do you continue the meeting without them, get them to switch to some hybrid Zoom/VR model, or drop the VR altogether? What if that person is a client, a senior exec, or a decision maker?

Not the OP, but I personally find it a little creepy and more than dystopic.

Also, I can pet my dog and even throw him a ball while writing comments on HN, but the VR thing will totally isolate me from him (and the AR thing won't bring anything new to the table, I already know my dog's name, don't need to see it labeled via AR). And even so, I try to limit the time I spent in front of my computer, glueing even more immersive computers to our faces won't do us any good.

If that VR and AR is from Facebook, then nah. The last thing I want is living inside Zuck's abominations.

Agreed - I actually did some real work in Horizon Workrooms today with a pass through keyboard and three large monitors streaming from my MacBook. Feels like they are getting really close. Those pancake lenses are truly a next-gen improvement.

I actually did the same with my Quest Pro that I got recently, pretty cool.

I've not seen many people comment on text legibility. How's reading compare to your normal monitor?

It's definitely a subpar experience, but for the first time it feels usable. Each screen is about the equivalent of a 55" 1080p monitor 5ft from your face.

Appreciate the description. Hopefully the next generation will be on par with modern monitors for text. I'm starting to come around to the idea that VR could be a great monitor setup at the right resolution.

> There’s simply not very much to do on the Quest Pro so far, and the HoloLens trajectory suggests that real apps will be slow to arrive.

Can't you play Quest 2 games on it?

Yes, but I’m not really interested in games. This device feels like a novel type of computer with no apps.

Try ImmersedVR! I often use it for my primary screens.

What’s the difference between ImmersedVR and Horizon?

You can freely move screens about, is the biggest benefit.

It's at least backwards compatible with existing Quest 2 apps, and I've already started seeing "Quest Pro Update" on a few Quest Store apps, so hopefully you'll start seeing some software that targets it better soon.

I felt the same way when I tried it out today! It was kinda buggy, but once I was able to get it working and clear (adjusting the lens/depth) it was actually pretty cool. Overall I didn’t think it was really ready for market from what I was seeing, but it was a really rad experience.

Your username is a game I love playing on my Quest 2. Streamed from my beefy PC ofc. CS 1.6 on VR. What a time to be alive!

There is a native version of Pavlov available on the Quest, no PC necessary. One of my favorite games!

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