Hacker News Reader

Comment by gwbas1c | Hacker News Reader

> they are being asked to answer the same question more than once, or they are being asked to enter data that is already contained in the resume that is also being uploaded

That's pretty much the point that I stop. As a professional in demand, I'm not going to do data entry for a mere job application. (But, if I see an apply button on some other job board that lets me upload a resume, I'll let the company's HR see my resume and do their own data entry.)

The problem is that hiring companies are treating applicants like a captive audience; and have little empathy for how frustrating their expectations are.

Interviewing for a job, especially a professional job, is always a two-way street. When I apply, it's because I want to know more. Extensive data entry for a job that I'm not sure I want, or that I'll be hired for, is a waste of my precious time.

View on HN

The interesting thing to me about this, and many other responses here, is that it's so blind to the reality beyond the tech space about how hiring actually operates for a job seeker. If you're in a position like, say, "software engineer," your skills are clear and unambiguous. You can list the same skills for every job application and eventually find what you want. But many – if not most – job seekers don't actually have that kind of experience. There's a ton of experience that needs to be tailored to the employer. I'm in the nonprofit operations space and there's about 10 different ways I can spin my experience based on what's being asked in the job listing. I don't WANT to copy & paste my LinkedIn because that's not going to get me the job – it reflects what my previous employer wanted, not what my new one might want.

David Graeber wrote a great book about this phenomenon

Many sites that allow you to export stored resumes (such as LinkedIn) will also allow you to store _multiple_ resumes. But even when they don't, there's nothing stopping you from having these multiples ready on your machine and updating the aggregator site as necessary.

So even in situations where tailoring is needed, it's still a completely unnecessary step to solicit details that are typically found on a resume.

Prior to becoming a software engineer, I had to tailor my applications just as you pointed out. BUT I ALSO HAD MULTIPLE RESUMES READY for each situation, since writing a new one from scratch--each and every time--would've been a completely pointless use of my precious job-seeking time.

If an employer doesn't review my resume and consider if my experience could be a fit in their organization then I don't want to work for them anyway. They know their needs and organization better than me and it's likely that half of the job description is fluff anyways.

Usually when an employer thinks I could be a fit, they call and we chat and see if it makes sense to continue talking. The resume and job application is just meant to be a signal of "hey I might be interested & qualified in what you're doing" if they can't be bothered to put in any effort, it's probably a sign they won't put any effort into making an enjoyable workplace either.

Isn't that the job of the cover letter to connect the dots and show how previous experiences & skills could meet the demands of the role being applied to?

Does anyone ever read a cover letter? In all my years of being an interviewer, HR has never once given me a cover letter along with the resume of the person I'm interviewing. I just assumed cover letters went straight to the trash because there's no way anyone in HR is going to have the time to read them all, let alone know enough about the role to glean anything useful from them.

I assure you, in the nonprofit space, cover letters are extremely important for contextualizing experience.

Sure, but even still – there's limited space on my resume. Imagine I've brainstormed 20 short "responsibilities and accomplishments" statements I can list for my last job. Of course I'm not going to list them all, but I am going to pick out the top four that make sense for the employer I'm applying to. I might put a different four on LinkedIn.

The interesting thing about your response is that you're pretty much blind to how similar your job search is to the tech space.

> You can list the same skills for every job application and eventually find what you want

Not really, actually. Every hiring manager is different, and if you take the time to tailor your application and resume to the hiring manager you do have a higher chance of success.

> and there's about 10 different ways I can spin my experience based on what's being asked in the job listing

Same thing in tech, too.

> I don't WANT to copy & paste my LinkedIn because that's not going to get me the job

Some techies do the same. The reason why it's less common is the critical difference between tech and your space. (At least what I think the critical difference is.) Many people in tech SPAM their resumes, and thus tech hiring managers have to wade through many applications from people who shouldn't even bother applying. The techies who tailor their application end up having to fight the odds that someone just won't look closely enough at the application to call back.

I suspect that the non-profit space has a narrower applicant pool that self-selects better; thus allowing a hiring manager to pay closer attention to each application.

> being asked to enter data that is already contained in the resume that is also being uploaded

I've seen forms where they want you to enter your work history including descriptions of all your roles... And then they also ask you to upload your resume.

Yes, and I pretty much walk away at that point. I don't mind entering my previous employer, but if you want to read my entire history it's already on LinkedIn and my resume.

By definition if you are not captive they won't have much use for you since you'll end up wasting their time

Of the two sides, only one is currently being paid to address the companies needs. If they are indeed a waste of time, then you have found another problem that needs addressing.

What I mean is that from a hiring company's POV an in-demand candidate who won't submit to nonsense because they can afford to will usually be a liability due to the power imbalance. They will either not need the company and bypass them in the first place, or create the risk of dangling interest for a long time before ghosting or declining.

Of course, for the target company itself that is looking for hires the employee in question may well be great but the incentives are not always aligned with that of the hiring company

Reply on news.ycombinator.com