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Comment by donkeyd | Hacker News Reader

They can still text regularly though, so it isn't that much of an issue if there's a real need to communicate.

Edit: I feel like every response I'm getting is: 'but texting is expensive, especially with foreign contacts'. Sure, but do you really need to send 100 texts in the odd hour that Whatsapp is offline sometimes, or can they wait?

Parent wrote 'This is a big issue in Europe', which is what I'm responding to. I live in Europe, I have foreign contacts. This should not be a big issue, because for pretty much everything that can't wait, texting or calling will be worth it. If it isn't worth spending some money to get in touch with someone, it can probably wait. This may be an actual issue for a very, very small number of people. But the majority is just exaggerating because they feel disconnected without being able to send Gifs to their friends for an hour.

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This is slightly impractical for non-critical communication for me because many of my friends are foreigners like me. Example issues:

- many people I talk to have phone numbers from different countries. Making such communication expensive.

- also, I suspect many people around me have not updated their WhatsApp number for a while (or have multiple SIMs)

- no one here optimises for SMS or call minutes. Some people will be on data only (either data only SIM, or Wi-Fi only)

How do people call 112 on such plans?

112 always goes through even if you haven't paid your subscription. In some countries even if you don't even have a SIM in your phone.

> Emergency calls shall be supported by the UE [User Equipment] without a SIM/USIM/ISIM being present. No other type than emergency calls shall be accepted without a SIM/USIM/ISIM.

> It will be left to the national authorities to decide whether the network accepts emergency calls without the SIM/USIM/ISIM.

[PDF] https://www.etsi.org/deliver/etsi_ts/122100_122199/122101/09...

So, do you need to be in touch with these people instantly 24/7? Because if that's the case it's useful to have some sort of back-up. If it isn't, then the usual Whatsapp outage isn't actually an issue for you, since it takes a couple of hours in the absolute worst case scenario. And if you really need to get in touch, you won't care that calling them is a bit expensive.

It’s generally bad etiquette to send SMS because it forces the other side to potentially have to pay money to reply. And if it’s cross-border then just forget it. Unless you are both on iPhones.

Yeah, but it's not considered bad etiquette to give in to WhatsApp's nagging to send your complete contacts so they can build their fscking social graph, thereby grossly violating EU GDPR in that phone numbers are personally identifiable information? And yes, it's you who's violating that law by handing out PII others shared with you under an implied assumption of confidentiality unless you've written consent by everybody stored in your contacts.

If you use SMS then you are sending not just your metadata, but the content of your messages in cleartext to your provider and the recipient’s, and depending on where you/your recipient lives, potentially the authorities too.

I’m all for living under a privacy rock, but WhatsApp is a much better rock than SMS.

The bigger issue is groups, who may not all be in your contacts, as well as services relying on whatsapp as infrastructure.

I have groups like that. If I open the app now, I can still see all their phone numbers, in case I really need to reach someone urgently.

In Europe you're degrading all the way to basic SMS because as far as i know MMS never worked properly. So basic text only, no emoji's or media attachments.

If not being able to send emoji or media attachments for a couple of hours is a 'big issue' for you, then I really feel for you, honestly. I have no idea what that would be like, but for me it's pretty trivial, Like I think it would be for most.

It's also used by businesses and governments. For example to report thrash that has been placed by the side of the road, you would send a whatsapp with a image of the issue. Insurance companies also use whatsapp for initiating a claim. There are backups for these systems of course but it is inconvenient and will cause some disruption.

Inconvenient is exactly the right issue for this, which was, pretty much, my point.

Sitting in Africa and I have clients in Europe - some things just don't lend themselves to email coms.

Phones still work, right? For things that can't wait for Whatsapp to get back online, I would imagine a phone call would then be an option? Or open up a Jitsi Meet just for the time being and share the link through mail?

There's so many alternatives, I'm always surprised that a Whatsapp outage seems to mean the end of the world to many people.

I don't see how that conclusion follows from the premise. Why doesn't email work for you in particular when you're in Africa and your clients in Europe?

Many people using WhatsApp are only using IP networks and can't send/receive SMS. There's a war on, right now, for example.

Every SMS I send nationally costs me 0.30€ my brother. I am not even going to bother looking what it costs me to text outside the country (even if inside the EU) or to send an MMS.

I haven't had to pay for SMS in the last decade. Even roaming is free in the EU too. Do we live in divergent Europe timelines or something?

>I haven't had to pay for SMS in the last decade. Even roaming is free in the EU too.

Whether you pay for SMS or not depends on your telco. Regarding roaming, let's say that you pay the same you'd pay if you were in your country if you leave the country, but you still pay different rates if you try to call or text someone from another country (whether you are roaming or not)

>Do we live in divergent Europe timelines or something?

Despite what the propaganda may have lead you to think, life in Europe is very different depending on your country.

> you still pay different rates if you try to call or text someone from another country (whether you are roaming or not)

I have a LycaMobile NL bundle (which you can get without having an address there) which is 15euro for 20 gigs + unlimited calls/sms national/international. Roaming too due to EU regulations. I've had service from the westmost point to the eastmost point of the EU with this SIM.

> life in Europe is very different depending on your country.

I know, I've lived in 4 countries by now in different regions. Thus the need to obtain cheap international SIMs, which are easy to acquire in most countries.

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