New Psychedelic Entactogens
psychedelicreview.com
psychedelicreview.com
These guys can get away with legally selling pressed pills of this combo in Europe. I'm not associated with this company.
I'm not sure about neurotoxicity either, but if you do some searching online, you'll find many anecdotal reports of people having miserable times for sometimes months following use. Those are mostly high or frequent doses, but I certainly don't feel comfortable taking a drug about which we know so little.
All type of shit gets fucked up for the duration of the high for all type of drugs. Tachycardia, sweating, blood pressure changes. None of that says "toxicity" to me, in the traditional sense of the word.
I would disregard any claims from Reddit users about a polydrug combo lacking neurotoxicity. It's unlikely that any of those three research chemicals (aka obscure recreational drugs) have been significantly tested for neurotoxicity alone, and definitely not in that specific combination.
Internet recreational drug users can be a little too over-confident in the safety of their drug use.
Curious to learn more.
("without neurotoxicity" seems pretty unfounded btw without a few papers by independent groups)
It was fun. Probably neurotoxic. Can't say I recommend doing random ass Chinese chemicals with little history of human consumption.
https://www.nature.com/articles/425109a
If you prefer to hear it straight from a Stanford professor's mouth:
I was under the impression that the literature was pretty settled on it being neurotoxic but sounds like I might be wrong about that.
I said 5-apb is probably nuerotoxic because it's serotonin effects felt very similar to mama, and that feeling has always felt to me like I was doing low grade brain damage or at the very least heavily downregulating my serotonin receptor system.
That said, I'd love to be proven wrong, since MDMA is great stuff. I hope someone can check the most recent literature on this topic and tell me otherwise.
-- as taken from a recent argument with a psychedelics enthusiast. Take it as you will.
People also complain about mushrooms causing nausea which is partially caused by inert organic matter. Some people may want options for reducing that.
Also, while psychedelic mushrooms are reasonable to cultivate, something like peyote isn't. With the rarity of peyote, I think it's disrespectful for anyone that isn't indigenous to take it and synthetic mescaline or it's analogues provides a way to get a very similar experience without the disrespect.
I'm not saying there's anything wrong with just taking mushrooms. Just throwing out some thoughts on possible reasons why some people might want to go other routes.
(Napkin math for factory farming peyote)
Another good way of ingesting the psilocybin is to make tea from the mushroom. This reduces discomfort for those who get unwell from eating it. For some types, such as psilocybe cubensis, it's recommended to squirt a bit of lemon juice in the mix. This will supposedly help extract the psilocybin from the mushroom.
As for potency, it's recommended to use a mortar and pestle to pulverize the dried mushroom into a fine powder. Potency should me more predictable and consistent after this.
These are probably very nuerotoxic.
Anyways, it is not hard to find reports from people who tried these "research chemicals". These substances are often legal (because they haven't been controlled yet) and they are labs that will make them for you without asking too many questions. And by that I mean serious, registered, professional labs doing things up to specs, with GC/MS and all that stuff. Not a RV in a desert. Publish the synthesis and someone will make it and try it.
Shulgin's popular creations turned out to be very safe, even in overdose, besides the few that were MAOIs (2C-T-7 and AMT, off the top of my head.) But Shulgin was looking for good, safe psychedelics.
David Nichols's lab worked in the same area, but focused on high-affinity 5-HT2A agonists. They made Bromo-DragonFLY (killed a few people after it was mislabeled as 2C-B-FLY), and then most recently the NBOMe series, which is often sold as counterfeit acid.
NBOMes produce spectacular, rich visuals, and a strong euphoria uncharacteristic for the class. Unfortunately, they seem to kill people at random, for no good reason. Even people taking it again at the same dose. And it can happen very abruptly. Seems to be from seizures disrupting the autonomic nervous system.
So chemical purity isn't the thing to worry about, it's the pharmacology. It's like test piloting experimental aircraft or something. If you experiment, use Shulgin's method and work up very, very slowly.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amphetamine
The paper cited on the potential similarity to psilocybin and LSD (which exert their activity through the 5-HT2A receptor) is behind a paywall and mice of course are not humans, so that's very speculative.
However, why mess around with compounds with unknown metabolic breakdown behavior, with unknown side effects and activity in humans, when the existing psychedelics (such as psilocybin, DMT, LSD and mescaline) are fairly well understood in terms of effects on humans?
I would definitely stick to the below 120mg dosages, these pills with 220mg are way too much!
But let's not suggest taking research chemicals for maybe mitigating a known negative side effect for the chemical family of compounds, as it could do good... but it could also bring another negative side effects on top of this one, or a worse one!
As much as Theranos has been discredited, there is still opportunity to perform near real-time serum measurements in novel ways which could have a huge impact on the safety of pharmaceutical consumption (even for recreational uses) in the forthcoming 20 years.
Although the current focus is diabetes, the possibilities are limitless.
I was just trying to warn people that reality is often more complex than simple plans.
There have been other interesting comments, just as interesting as your original one, offering more information as to why it's not as clear cut as some people are pretending it to be.