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Comment by Traubenfuchs | Hacker News Reader

Combine with propranolol for maximum effect.

A very overlooked drug that can be used in the treatment of many disorders related to anxiety, stress and fear. Without the risk of debiliating addiction benzos and benzolikes bring.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/14573324/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3692719/

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Yeah, I've been on beta blockers for a heart defect for several years now. I read this paper about a year after going on them and just started exploring trauma on my own (stuff that made me weep or even pull face muscles in grief) the post sleep memory reconsolidation is basically a miracle and my emotional trauma responses were basically wrapped up within ~ 1 year. There is now nothing so awful I cannot touch, hold and examine it. I no longer even have nightmares of any kind. I don't have intrusive thoughts from past events during the day (none to speak of) and no rumination either, it's like speed running stoicism.

What is the post sleep memory reconsolidation?

My mom has severe PTSD that is causing memory and cognitive decline because all her resources are dedicated to fight or flight. She is just a ball of the most significant stress you can imagine and it’s destroying her.

Have any recommendations or suggestions?

Basically the protocol is to be on a beta blocker and then recall the memory and explore it followed by normal sleep.

This pulls the memory into short term storage and then when you sleep the memory will reconsolidate into long term storage but without the physiological adrenaline/stress response.

I had some terrible experiences that provoked strong grief responses and it took several cycles of recall / reconsolidation before the emotional stress response was stripped to something manageable.

Wow that sounds very powerful and a logical way to reduce the associated trauma from a memory. Good for you for working your way through that! And thanks for sharing.

For my moms case, she’s unfortunately buried whatever trauma it is that is causing her to eg always have her bags packed and ready to bolt such that I don’t think she can consciously identify a memory that has traumatized her. She doesn’t even think she has trauma (despite everyone having at least some trauma and her more than others). At this point she’s just put up all her defences and refuses to deal with the root of it. It’s ruining her psychologically and unfortunately negatively affects all those who are around her (considering she’s at 20/10 stress levels nearly all the time but she thinks that’s normal).

Thanks again for sharing what has been working for you. I’m trying desperately to find something that can help her become a functional human being again because I’ve been her full time caretaker for last couple years and now it’s killing me too. But perseverance they say, balanced with burn out.

The non pharmaceutical variant of exactly this would be using meditation. Which is a lot of effort.

Have any academic references for this, ? Im genuinely curious, and would like to be able to read more about it.

Has she looked into EMDR therapy?

Ah, propranolol... how I wished it was a thing back when I was in school. I used to practice my instrument for hours every day, just to choke when performing a solo in front of an audience. Fast forward 20+ years, and I embarrass myself by freezing up during a VP review. That damn lizard brain!

I finally got a prescription, and a full bottle of pills at the ready -- but I haven't tried it yet.

I couldn‘t do job interviews without -I‘d probably be unemployed.

Hah, had me on the edge of my seat to hear the life altering impact, and then, bottle’s still on the shelf!

Here’s to hoping it works well next time you need it tho.

Anyone with asthma doesn't qualify for propranolol. There are more "selective" beta blockers but it's not clear they're as effective for psychological use, or how much less they exacerbate asthma.

> propranolol [for] anxiety, stress and fear

I recall reading that propranolol reduces the physical manifestations of anxiety, stress and fear, but you still feel it internally. For example, when used for stage fright, you won't fidget, stutter, blush, sweat, and have a racing heart beat, but you'll still feel the anxiety inside yourself.

Personal anecdote, i heard this as well, but after trying it, its very clear that it has positive results on my anxiety, not only physical (shaky hands...) but mental as well

What is anxiety except those physical manifestations and how hard they make it to think?

And, for a nonpharmaceutical intervention -- have them play a bit of Tetris.

https://www.psych.ox.ac.uk/news/tetris-used-to-prevent-post-...

I can confirm from personal experience that this works, and that it isn't specific to Tetris. Other visual/spatial puzzles are similarly effective.

I think Nurikabe is really good.

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