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The cable is a PDMI cable, an industry standard developed by ANSI/CEA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ANSI and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consumer_Electronics_Associatio... ), my Dell Streak comes with an identical one too, as do certain Android media players (Slacker G2).

Info on PDMI: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PDMI Image of Dell Streak PDMI: http://www.images.technologyking.co.uk/25032011/hgggg.jpg

Indeed, that does address the pin configuration. What about the connector housing and strain relief, though? Hell, Apple's strain relief sucks – you need a pack of Sugru to rescue older dock connector cables. You don't copy that for practical reasons, right? The specimens you linked look very different from Samsung's dubiously unique interpretation.

The housing and strain relief are both different. It's the same type of connector on both ends so there is no way they won't end up looking similar.

From the first paragraph of the wiki page:

"It is designed as an alternative to the iPod interface which was used exclusively by Apple Inc."

The connector looks like an attempt to confuse people with the iPod peripherals and visual branding. Why that exact shape?

I imagine PDMI came about because it's frankly a pretty good connector. I love me some USB, but USB aside it is one of the most feature-ful and reasonable portable device connectors I've known.

As for the shape of Samsung's plug, form follows function. USB plugs all mostly look the same too.

It looks like PDMI is just the Apple Dock Connector standardized.

It occurs to me there is a strong incentive to use a PDMI interface- many cars, devices and accessories that interface with the iPod use that interface. Is it IP theft to hook into devices that normally hook into the iPod?

Here's the Dell Streak's pin configuration: http://www.streaksmart.com/2010/07/dell-streak-doesnt-use-sa...

That's not the same as either Apple's or Samsung's. Samsung's connection is a mirrored version of Apple's. Here's a comparison of the 3 device connectors: http://android.modaco.com/topic/324387-docking-port-is-it-pd...

It's pretty hard to say that Samsung is "just following the standard" if it's different than Dell's connector.

Facts that form a good starting point for understanding that Samsung's defense is not open and shut:

(1) Some copying is legal.

(2) Some copying is illegal.

(3) The line between (1) and (2) is not clearly drawn.

(4) Many companies copy Apple -- some legally and some illegally.

(5) Samsung copies Apple a lot closer then most other mainstream (read: non-pirate) companies do.

...

The problem with Samsung is why (5)?

To say "that's the only way to design something" flies in the face of (4). Why can't Samsung differentiate their tablet as well as (say) the HTC Flyer?

They appear to be interested in looking as identical to Apple's products as possible -- to the point where Samsung lawyers can't even quickly say which is which when a judge holds both products over their head. When the copying is this blatant and close, accusations of piracy are unavoidable.

I'm not saying Samsung's guilty of crossing the line between legal and illegal - that's what experts and lawyers and judges are paid to do. But I'm saying they are knowingly closer to the line then most companies are comfortable being and that it's silly to casually dismiss the idea that Samsung could have infringed Apple's IP (as people here frequently do).

Well said. I'll add: (5) seems natural if (and we certainly don't have to) we also believe a few other facts:

(6) As this article says, Apple [un]designs things by "creating the simplest shape possible".

(7) This is a good thing. It leads in very many cases to the best products.

(8) Samsung, more than others, recognizes (7) and so follows Apple's lead.

If so, then the only way for Samsung to be legal, if (5) is past the line of acceptability, is to intentionally put effort into making worse products.

Which would, at the very least, make a Samsung designer's job description an interesting one.

This reminds me of engineers trying to work around patents. I spoke to a guy who manufactures flexible guide posts which can flex in any 360 direction. He has a patent on it, and the flexible part is cylindrical. He said competitors work around the patent by making square shaped posts. Obviously this is not the most natural shape if you were to want to flex in all directions.

http://1.androidauthority.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/sam...

Here this is a nice photo frame samsung made in 2006, interestingly no one sued anyone for it. Apple is just full of bullshit and does everything to halt sales of their competitor.

Why would somebody sue Samsung or Samsung sue somebody by a digital photo frame. It's a photo frame!!

Or you are saying that the Ipad copied the samsung photo frame design, and samsung should sue apple for it?

It's a photo frame, and their tablet resembles that photo frame (a legacy Samsung product that predates the iPad) at least as much as it resembles the iPad. The claim is that Apple's suit is spurious.

> Apple is just full of bullshit

What a compelling argument!

Read my comment again - in full.

Apple didn't build a freaking photo-frame..they built a tablet computer...

The functionality is not at question here, the look and feel of the item is. This, hence, is a perfectly valid claim.

This is akin to that "everything that can be invented, has been invented" quote, and equally lacking in foresight.

The reason many competitor products look similar or worse than apple products, is because we have unimaginative industrial designers that think like this blogger.

The next generation of apple tablets will find a way to distinguish themselves from their competitors, despite having already created 'the perfect design'.

I have a Galaxy Tab, too and there is no USB connector. I'm quite sure of this because I had to buy a $20 add-on that hackishly turns the PDMI port into a USB port and looks freakishly ugly while doing so. PDMI is, of course, an industry standard.

I really wish they had put an actual USB port on the thing, or at least a place to put a micro SD card. But if anyone is copying Apple's whole "we don't believe in strain relief" nonsense, I really do hope they stop that. Damaged cables are not beautiful. They make the device look like junk.

It's a different color, which, in Apple's view, is good enough of differentiation.

But I do wish it was a more standard USB port, like the micro one that Amazon's adopted.

I know at least one Android tablet that has an extra power connector because apparently it's USB micro connector can not provide sufficient power.

Maybe the Apple USB connector is not even protected design and Samsung was allowed to use it? Is it actually compatible to the Apple connector.

Once you go for a wider connector, perhaps again there are not that many options if you want to be thin. It has to be some kind of slot of some length. Presumably the amount of pins is fixed, and you want a minimum length per pin for good connectivity? (I am just guessing, don't know much about electronics).

Anyway, do you feel offended by a slot in a tablet? Does it really matter that much?

> Anyway, do you feel offended by a slot in a tablet? Does it really matter that much?

I'm offended that anyone can look at the situation and argue that Samsung arrived at their designs independently.

No one arrives at any design independently. Design decisions are always informed by what's been proven successful, whether be the current designer or their competitors.

Apple has of course influenced the market. The question is whether Apple has the right to be only company in the market to sell certain things, like rectangular touchscreen tablet devices. I don't think they have that right.

Would it feel better for you if the slot was only 19mm wide instead of 21?

I'm offended that anybody can look at the situation and argue Apple designed the iPad independently.

How about the MILLIONS of apple USB cables out there by iphone and ipad and ipod users where these same users may buy a samsung device and still be able to use their cables.

I have ~10 apple USB cables. I keep 1 in my backpack, 1 in the car, 1 in the bedroom, I have a 6' long one I bought from deal extreme and several others in various places.

I have an iPad - but I'm open to other devices and I hate it when I cant usethe cables I have.

(I have about 8 dell power adapters for the same reasons)

If you stop buying Apple products all your USB cables will look the same for all devices.

Honestly, I have never bought an apple product.

I am very good about my employers buying me requisite devices for work. I have had the iphone since launch and have gone through 12 of them (in all the various models) as I tend to drop them a lot.

The iPad was a gift.

I have not bought a phone or computer for myself in ~10 years.

A wide plug is less likely to get jostled out by moving the cord sideways back and forth. It's fairly common sense.

And a width of 21mm is the only configuration that could satisfy this requirement?

Precisely that, and no other? I don't mean to be flip, but it beggars belief to say that this is some sort of platonic form of tablet connector, especially given that the connector originated on the iPod in 2003, and existed not for stability, but for thinness, and to provide additional pins for accessories in a larger Apple-specific ecosystem. It was designed with a purpose, no part of which beyond thinness obtains when applied to a non-Apple device.

I am sure they did not copy the 21mm because it looks the best. There must be some other reason.

> I am sure they did not copy the 21mm because it looks the best. There must be some other reason.

We agree. That reason being, it looks like Apple's, and consumers love that.

No, the reason it's that wide is because that's how wide PDMI cables are. They are all about the same width. It's a standard.

It's probably because these are easy to buy. The people making $1 iPod replacement cables must buy them somewhere, after all.

I have a Sansa music player that uses an iPod cable but with the wires hooked up differently for no apparent reason. It seems to be a pretty common thing.

Maybe the component supplier put in a cheaper bid if the part sizes were identical?

Do you really think that, without the USB connector being nearly identical, that Apple wouldn't be taking them to court?

The point is that if they rip off the cable and port, which is easy to detect, it's hard to believe that they stopped there when taking inspiration from the most successful product in the space.

USB and PDMI are standard connectors. What part don't you understand? And, btw, how do you rip off the cable?

As cube13 mentioned, eh, not so much, there:

http://android.modaco.com/topic/324387-docking-port-is-it-pd...

I had posted this on another thread too, however, this discussion around Samsung's design "independence" is ridiculous. Unless one is a lawyer, it's fairly obvious that they ripped off Apple's designs, take a look at this link:http://www.reddit.com/tb/kr14a

This too: http://www.esphoneblog.com/2011/04/20/apple-vs-samsung-menu-...

So why aren't we reading articles saying 'Sales of Samsung USB cables banned' rather than 'Sales of Samsung Tablets banned'?

I agree that the USB cable is rather a smoking gun - but it's the only one. If that's what's wrong, attack that. Don't go and use that to argue about everything else.

>So why aren't we reading articles saying 'Sales of Samsung USB cables banned'

This almost borders on the deliberately obtuse, here.

The USB cable doesn't exist in isolation, a decorative piece in the packaging, to be displayed on your desk as the proud owner of a Samsung product.

The cable plugs into the tablets Samsung is selling. Only those tablets, no others. The cables serve no other use. These tablets have a port on the bottom that has been specifically to designed to fit these and only these cables. So this pretty blatantly lifted design is integral to the tablet. Not just the cable.

Which is the smoke in the gun barrel. It's the obvious signal that says Samsung was looking in a very specific, singular direction when they made their design decisions.

But let's go with your thinking, here:

If such a ban prevailed, and those cables were forbidden from distribution anywhere on earth, even inside the box of a Samsung tablet, the tablet would not function. Couldn't charge.

So it would be an effective short term remedy. And, there again, your smoking gun. The most critical, non-negotiable piece of the entire device was lifted wholesale from Apple.

Or they could design a new cable?

Apple are asking them to change a whole load of things - colour, size, proportionality etc. Why not just ask them to change the cable?

Let's put it the other way - if someone came out and said they had a patent on some part of Apple's power cable - be it a design patent or a technology one - would you say that Apple would have to stop selling iPads? Or just stop selling those particular cables, and design around it?

For a similar case, look at the recent Doom 3 source code release. John Carmack had to remove the code for Carmack's Reverse because it infringed a Creative Labs patent (which had been licensed specifically to id, not to outside developers). He didn't have to remove the whole code base, just the one bit that actually infringed.

> Or they could design a new cable?

And a new port. Given the scenario where that cable is banned, they'd need to replace the port on every existing tablet they've sold. This is a linchpin.

The point is that this isn't something that exists in isolation. This is evidence that suggests Samsung is comfortable ripping off Apple, and did so. Pretty blatantly. And so if they did it here, you think they didn't do it elsewhere in their industrial design?

It's an ANSI-standard PDMI cable. David McLauchlan of Microsoft chaired the PDMI committee.

Anyone copying the no strain relief cables should be shot, though. I appear to have lost the charging cable for my Galaxy Tab, so I can't check that right now.

EDIT: Found them. The cables that came with my Tab have strain relievers. They're hard to see, but they're there. Point for Samsung.

I hate mini-usb, for some reason the fit has never been good for me. I'm fine with Apple's USB connector being the standard fit for our mobile devices. And this means if someone has a Samsung tablet at their house, I can charge my iPad.

> if someone has a Samsung tablet at their house, I can charge my iPad.

Not so much – the cable isn't actually compatible. It just looks like it should be.

This is even worse... it's deceptive. Of course they couldn't make it compatible without paying Apple (who would probably wouldn't have allowed it without egregious licensing fees), but if it looks like it works and doesn't, that's just doing their end-users a disservice.