Hacker News Reader

Comment by dilap | Hacker News Reader

I am trying the reconcile the feeling of free-will we experience with its evident absence, per the theory.

(Of course, you could also just say the feeling is an illusion.)

I don't know if you can ever answer it one way or the other, because while consciousness certainly exists (again a fact I believe just because I feel it), it can't in any way influence the universe, at least per current theories of physics.

On the other hand, if you're right that many-worlds is real and our consciousness persists in all of them, then we will, individually, come to realize that is the case, as find ourselves still alive, forever, ever more improbably (since, I think, the odds of dying would never be 1, so you'll always be alive in some lucky world).

View on HN

Consciousness does influence the universe by being part of it. That's why we have the illusion of choice within the context of each moment rather than some meta-alien's perspective. But no it can't defeat determinism if that's what you meant.

I believe someone called that idea "quantum immortality" and I find it conceptually interesting if not somewhat terrifying. However it does seem like the inevitable conclusion of these ideas.

> Consciousness does influence the universe...

I'm not sure I'm following the argument. Let me phrase it this way: can you devise an experiment which will determine if a given entity is conscious?

> I believe someone called that idea "quantum immortality"

(Thanks for the term; I'd heared the idea expressed before, but not that phrase.)

Skimming the wikipedia page, I didn't find any of the counter-arguments to be particularly compelling.

So, while I'm not sure how deeply I believe it (simply because it feels very unintuitive -- and I'm definitely not about to try to kill myself to test it!†), I agree with you: it really does seem like the inevitable conclusion of these ideas; I also agree it's somewhat terrifying!

Especially when you consider that as time goes on, probably in the majority of the universes where you are alive, you are just barely alive, in great pain. The only consolation is that, perhaps, you'll still have enough awareness to think to yourself, "incredible that I haven't died yet -- I guess many-worlds really is true!"

(† Even if you are knock-down 100% convinced in quantum immortality, you probably still don't want to engage in wildly risky behavior or try to kill yourself -- because you will be killing yourself in a large number of universes, and causing a lot of pain to your loved ones in those universes. A similar argument could be applied to engaging in any sneaky behavior which would cause significant pain if discovered.)

> can you devise an experiment which will determine if a given entity is conscious?

No, without being able to define what consciousness is we can't make an experiment to test for it. The simplest explanation in my view is that qualia are a base "element" of the universe and information systems and our consciousness is a loosely drawn subset of qualia associated with our brain/body's information system. To be clear this is not dualism, the qualia are not some magical thing riding on top of physics and cannot change the path of particles from their physically determined routes.

Regarding quantum immortality I don't know if it necessarily demands a universe in which some form of every person lives forever by some unexpected chance of quantum improbability. At least in terms of a continuity of normal life it may be that the probability of a person living longer than a human body physically can is zero. However some have argued there is a non-zero chance that random quantum fluctuations could lead to brief instances of a person arising from "nothingness" anywhere and anytime in the universe, and some of those persons could by pure luck happen to match the mind of a person elsewhere. However this does start getting into the realm of silliness and quantum randomness and infinite universes allowing for literally every possible combination of particles.

Well, I'm not sure how you square that definition(ish) of consciousness w/ the claim that consciousness can influence the universe. Because, how?

Yeah, intuitively somehow it seems absurd to think that "everything possible is happening", somewhere, in some dimension. It almost feels like a modern version of Zenos paradox. Like, in the limit, there are no universes in which you're alive...

Reply on news.ycombinator.com