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Comment by Pewpewarrows | Hacker News Reader

I'll just leave this here for everyone saying that iPad-like designs never existed before the iPad:

http://gdeluxe.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/20111004-03455...

What I see is an excellent example of how tablets before the iPad did not look anything like the iPad, and those after have clearly been inspired by it.

Then again, this kind of design-blindness doesn't surprise me. There are constantly people claiming that certain laptops and phones are equally well-designed as Apple products. There is clearly a large group of people who cannot see the difference.

Many people usually looks at design from design features perspective rather than the subtleness of it. After all, they're all rectangular with bezels and screen in the middle. It can't be much different, right?

However once you start looking in details there will be a lot of differences, subtle or not. Are the bezels and screens completely flat in a single piece? What are the visual featuring of buttons? How black/white it is? etc.

So basically you are calling out people for their "design blindness" while at the same time you imply that no competing electronic device has ever been designed as well as anything Apple has ever made.

I like Apple products too, but some of their competitors make awesome products from time to time.

Name one.

Please, this is a serious question. I would truly love to have an Android phone, an Android tablet or a Linux-compatible laptop with the same design and build quality as an Apple product.

I've pretty much given up on manufacturers that clearly don't want my money. Audio and tv electronics, no problem. Hell, I can even get beautifully designed alarm clocks, toasters and even friggin' designer humidifiers, so obviously Apple hasn't cornered the market on talented industrial designers.

Before I give some examples, just remember that claiming one device has an overall better design is highly subjective. However, build quality is more easily recognized.

Asus' new Transformer Prime tablet is probably the best example of a product that matches or exceeds the build quality and design of an Apple product.

Asus' original transformer tablet, while not as thin or light as the iPad, was also an extremely well-built and stylish device. I think that I would actually prefer an iPad 2 over the original transformer, but that doesn't mean it isn't a nice piece of hardware.

The Transformer Prime does look great.

As an aside, I can't decide whether its website is cool or not: http://eee.asus.com/en/eeepad/transformer-prime/features

Just two that I own(ed):

Lenovo Thinkpad X220 (Richard Sapper, and well, the build quality certainly beats every MacBook out there) HTC Desire (It fell from 20ft and survived)

Your examples aren't particularly good ones; it would appear none of the post-iPad images are of a Samsung device. The point can best be illustrated using the same approach that a judge did in one of the hearings; if you hold up any of the devices prior to the iPad and an iPad and ask a typical consumer to identify which one is the iPad, there is no question as to which one they'd instantly pick. Do the same with a a Galaxy 10.1 and iPad and I'm not so sure the same individual could immediately differentiate the two, in fact Samsung's lawyer couldn't identify which was which, kind of proving Apple's point. Do the same with pretty much every other tablet on the market and there is a significant enough difference to recognise which is an iPad in an instance, as illustrated by your picture. That's not to say Apple's approach is either valid or particularly warranted, however as an industrial designer looking at both products in the knowledge that one followed the other, I find it hard to believe that Samsung haven't be substantially "influenced" by Apple's design language; to the extent that were these design degree submissions, I'd be investigating plagiarism.

Did they hide the samsung brand on the front and had it turned off? I mean most people are aware of the Apple brand and would know it's not and iPad just based on the lack of the apple logo.

If the only thing the distinguishes your product from a competitor's predecessor is the change in which logo is on it, you've got a serious issue.

Actually there is a lot more that differentiates these two devices even on a first inspection. If I asked you to tell me the brand of two tires with no branding could you tell me which is which? I don't see people talking about bridegstone and Michelin having serious issues.

On a first inspection of the device I'm pretty sure most people wouldn't think they are the same. After turning it on even less. That the samsung looks are inspired by the iPad, I'm sure they would agree but I don't think they would be confused. Most people don't seem confused when buy clothes at Macy's that they are actually the designer equivalent.

What about a quick search for Star Trek tablet: http://www.inventinginteractive.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/...

Star Trek PADDs: https://www.google.com/search?q=star+trek+PADDs&hl=en...

Most of the PADDs actually do have extraneous design elements of the type suggested by Apple, though.

I think Apple definitely have a claim to revolutionising the tablet, but its much more to do with building a decent OS which is relatively simple to use, and making sure its backed up by decent hardware so it responds without a huge amount of lag. The physical design, whilst nice, was never the ground breaking element, but perhaps it is easier for the lawyers to claim patents over....

haha. Here's another version of it:

http://osxdaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/tablets-befor...

That one doesn't separate before and after, it separates industrial and consumer.

In my experience the main problem with older tablets (pre-2006) was that they had a horrible usability/cost ratio. If you had lots of cash to blow (from corporate IT budgets) on gadgets you could get a slow, awkward version of windows to browse the web and work with your powerpoint presentations. The touchscreens were finicky, power-saving features were crude, there was no 3G wireless, and multimedia capabilities weren't impressive.

The iPad wasn't feasible until those technical problems had been solved.

There's plenty of use of the color black, rectangular shapes, rounded corners, and centered screens in the "before iPad" group.

In general, the tablet design language seems to have evolved over time. Here are the four pre-iPad generations of Nokia's internet tablets:

770 (2005): http://www.flickr.com/photos/bergie/231781513/

N800 (2007): http://www.flickr.com/photos/bergie/399708279/

N810 (2007): http://www.flickr.com/photos/bergie/2290709295/

N900 (2009): http://www.flickr.com/photos/bergie/4706326072/

In those pictures you can also see some common tablet features like on-screen keyboards, video chat, maps, and even augmented reality.

All of the Nokia tablets came with a stylus but were mostly used with fingers. The stylus was handy for web browsing - for example, on the iPad I have to zoom HN quite a bit before I can reliably hit the up/down voting buttons.

At some point Nokia even introduced a feature where the UI elements would sense whether you're using stylus or finger, and would size themselves accordingly.

> for example, on the iPad I have to zoom HN quite a bit before I can reliably hit the up/down voting buttons.

This is because HN's design and HTML code suck. It's unreadable and inconvenient on laptops too.

Sure, but it isn't by far the only website with small hit areas

That's why I use this:

https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/oieefcckcbbgniifdh...

And they all run Windows with a stylus. No capacitive touch screen, no custom app-based OS. It's a qualitative difference.

Incorrect. Once capacitive screens that could detect a finger were invented, they were immediately incorporated into tablet PCs. Many tablets incorporated an active digitizer underneath a resistive one, allowing both fingers and styli. As for a custom app-based OS, look no further than any tablet running Windows Mobile, like the HTC Shift X9500.

http://pastebin.com/6NKYY3Bf

Mis-pasted wrong link?

I don't think the design patent covers the software or even the hardware. It's about looks, exclusively.

You can add to that the Uren V1, the Samsung Q1, the i7210, the HTC Advantage, the Samsung Mondi, and the W1090, just for starters. Apple did absolutely nothing when it came to device innovation, they just made brilliant, easy to use software to go along with it and gave it a good price point.

Notably, all of the "before" tablets run Windows and none of the "after" ones do.

Actually, here are the tablets before and after iPad: http://obamapacman.com/2011/08/ipad-tablet-obvious-design/

Your example doesn't go back far enough.

https://www.msu.edu/~luckie/gallery/images/2kopen.jpg

I'll warrant quite a few HN readers weren't born when Apple started investing in tablet computing.

If you did a chart of how typical websites looked through those years, they would similarly change towards minimalism with rounded corners. Picking one and putting it in the middle wouldn't mean much. Popular design styles change over time. This diagram doesn't prove anything.

all windows tablets needed a stylus. ever used one of those? horrible, horrible stuff.

as you get older you realize how fucking ignorant the youth is. hindsight is 20/20.

i remember the time before the iPad. before the iPhone. No one, really no one, would have predicted those devices coming from Apple. Multi-Touch? no stylus? no keyboard? unthinkable. Apple doing a phone? A phone!? no way....and here we are.

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