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Comment by Panino | Hacker News Reader

> Kroger/Albertsons would... own and operate brands such as Safeway, Ralphs, Smith’s, Harris Teeter, Dillons, Fred Meyer, Vons, Kings, Haggen, Tom Thumb, Star Market, Jewel-Osco, and Shaw’s.

The illusion of competition. Then within that single company posing as many are found food products sold by a handful of megacompanies like Kraft, Nestle and General Mills, each posing as a multitude of companies "competing" with one another.

For this and other reasons, it's best to cook and eat whole foods (onions, sweet potatoes, etc.) instead of consuming foodlike products that were manufactured.

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In the PNW, I don't think it even creates the illusion. What grocery stores are left that wouldn't be under that umbrella? In Redmond, WA, the only ones that come to mind are Trader Joe's, PCC, and Whole Foods. One could probably shop at PCC and get everything one needs for food. Whole Foods, sure, but it's pricey and now you're dealing with just another giant corporation trying to eat the world.

But it is starting to look like there's going to be Kroger and Publix (if you live far enough south). Meanwhile our government agencies are over there playing with their fiddles.

In the Seattle area, Town & Country markets are nice, but expensive.

PCC may work for some folks, but they don't carry some fairly basic things like... Coke. (also crazy expensive).

Your list is missing Grocery Outlet, Target Grocery, Costco, and the smattering of Asian grocers. You could probably also add Amazon Fresh delivery.

But, yes: nobody in our area is under the illusion that Fred Meyer and QFC (or Safeway and Albertsons) compete with each other.

Also the largest which is Wal-Mart, I assume they sell food in the PNC

That's true, but there's no Walmart in Redmond itself. The Seattle area is unusually Walmart-light, as I explained in a comment on a similar thread the other day.[1]

[1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33239311

Good point, I've missed quite a few. I guess I was thinking more of "one stop shopping", which even PCC barely qualifies for only a select group of people. But at the end of the day, should the merger go through and Krogerson's tries to go all monopoly, the listed alternatives will serve as mitigating factor.

As far as "one stop shops" go, there are few in the PNW. I'm down in Federal Way, and though we have Fred Meyer and the Walmart Super Center, everything else (Safeway, QFC, Trader Joe's, WinCo, Grocery Outlet, Chefs'tore and possible Amazon Fresh, though I've not been in there yet) are just grocery stores, and Target and Costco (plus what we call "the old WalMart, used primarily as a management training store for WalMart) are big-box stores that also happen to carry food.

With the rise of e-commerce, I don’t really see the allure of one stop shopping.

I live in the PNW and almost never go to Kroger/Safeway stores. I just want groceries, I don’t want to have to wade through endless cruft to get there.

Near me, the QFC is tiny compared to the Fred Meyer stores. It's much more convenient to get in and get out quickly. Prices are higher than Fred Meyer on most things so we tend to use it for items we ran out of and do our weekly shopping elsewhere.

There's a lot of Kroger-labeled things on the shelves, so it's clear they're owned by the same company.

Another option are the organic-only stores, like Natural Grocers.

>Near me, the QFC is tiny compared to the Fred Meyer stores.

QFCs are essentially just the "Grocery" department from Fred Meyer. Remove Home Goods, Apparel and Electronics from FM and you've got yourself a QFC.

Edit: Someone step in here and correct me if I'm wrong, but that's Kroger's basic MO. Even Ralph's and their Kroger-branded stores just feel like the exact same grocery store as QFC and FM's grocery department.

And (sorry to rant, lol), yeah, a dude named Fred Meyer in Portland really did found the store in the 1920's, but do y'all have to put his picture and a big spiel about him and "local community" up at the front of your store when we all know that the present-day reality of FM is bullshit?

A bit nitpicky but given the topic, GP mentioned Whole Foods. Amazon owns Whole Foods, so "Amazon Fresh delivery" isn't another competitor .

> What grocery stores are left that wouldn't be under that umbrella?

The best one, Winco. And of course, Walmart, Target, Costco, New Seasons, Trader Joe’s, Grocery Outlet, Natural Grocers, etc. Lidl and Aldi are making huge gains nationwide too.

A big shout-out for Winco--albeit their ~140 stores is dwarfed by the Kroger, Albertsons, and Publix triumvirate. Winco is without a doubt the best non-luxury grocery store I've been to in decades.

How did tiny Boise, Idaho birth both the worst mega-grocer (Albertsons) and one of the best?

Boise not all that small, and people there work hard. I lived there for 10 years, so am familiar with it.

Appropriately for this post there's a Haggen's a little north in Woodinville. Just across the border into Bellevue there's the Asian family market, Mayuri, and a host of other small Indian/Asian stores. Target and Costco are also options as other's mentioned.

Love our Haggen's!

FYI, Haggen has been owned by Albertsons since 2016.

Personally I've moved all my shopping to ethnic grocers, but I'm lucky to live in a diverse area with multiple Mexican, asain, and African ones nearby. I also cook all of my food, selection would be awful if you stick to more pre-made stuff probably.

I would honestly be surprised if Amazon didn't have a large network of grocery stores in the PNW within the decade. The no cashier system seems to be working well in D.C. and removes both a huge pain point for customers and a huge cost center for the business. I expect them to be really aggressive with this, especially on home turf.

I’d take the other side of that bet. Their walk-in walk-out arent doing well in urban Seattle. When I lived in the city, I hated going there and preferred going to the QFC nearby. I’d expect it would do even worse in a suburban setting.

The one across the street from where I live does quite well, and compared with the QFC up the street, I prefer it. It doesn’t have a meat counter or fresh bakery (stuff is clearly trucked in), but for most stuff, I prefer it and can also return Amazon packages there.

But Amazon already has a big PNW chain (and nationally, too): Whole Foods

Whole Foods is Amazon owned.

Whole foods doesn't have the mass appeal of Korger/Albertsons.

It's not like this is a secret or a conspiracy, and it's not done to trick customers into thinking there is fake competition. Customers don't care about competition or antitrust when they shop for cereal or deodorant.

You can go to the parent company's website and see the list of brands. For example: https://www.generalmills.com/food-we-make/brands

This kind of thing generally happens because brands being acquired by a new parent company already have a brand image and some amount of customer loyalty, and targets a particular price bracket or demographic. Rebranding the products would be bad for business.

People bring up the same kind of argument when they talk about Luxottica making many of the famous brands of sunglasses, as if it's a conspiracy or somehow makes the product evil or inauthentic. I don't get it. Products should be evaluated on their own merits, and branding is not evil per se.

I'm in Metro Atlanta. Near me we have: Walmart, Target (our local Target has full grocery), 3 wholesale clubs [Costco, BJs, Sams Club], Aldi, Ingles, 2 local chains (largest is Food Depot which is all over the region), Piggly Wiggly, Kroger, Publix, and Asian and Hispanic supermarkets. Elsewhere in the metro area there is Lidl, Trader Joe's, Whole Foods, and probably others I'm not thinking of.

idk where i live we have a few krogers and nothing else. i think these differ by geographic footprint. we have plenty of competition:

* HEB

* walmart

* brooks brothers

* fiesta

* 99 ranch market/other asian stores

* lots of good carnicerias

* costco

there's an aldi but i've been a few times and it's a awful experience and i don't think most people go there but there's still plenty of options. there's probably something specific about where you are that's pushed towards that situation if there are no options.

kraft, nestle and general mills make name brands. most of the stores i just listed offer store brands that are basically the same thing for cheaper. you don't have to buy from the megacompanis.

mostly agree on the whole foods argument, though.

Guess who makes most of the store brands?

At the grocery chain I worked for, the store brand cereals were from Kellogg's but if you bought a box of store brand and a box of Kellogg's, you'd quickly discover that the store brand was inferior. For some thing like Corn Flakes, the store brand had smaller flakes, lots more corn flake dust, and burnt pieces. I suspect that Kellogg's has some sort of QA process that on the production line separates what's good enough for their brand from that which gets sold as store brands.

I don’t think those various grocery store names operate in the same areas, so I don’t think there’s any illusion of competition going on there.

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