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Comment by duxup | Hacker News Reader

So many developer stories out there where it doesn't sound like they ever really had a direct talk with their boss.

Every time I raise an issue like this with a manager, the manager makes all the right noises but nothing actually changes. Maybe I’m just not direct enough. But I’ve never had a conversation with a boss about an issue like a role mismatch and had it actually work out. Months will go by with no progress, multiple check ins with the same conversations, until I’m fed up and I leave.

Maybe I haven’t lucked out and found a manager who not only listens but is actually empowered to change things.

If you raise the issues, made it clear how you feel about it ... then you've communicated.

Actions do count after that.

Communication is just the first step, after that it isn't always required if they've demonstrated they won't / can't do a thing(s).

> it doesn't sound like they ever really had a direct talk with their boss.

Sure, but why? Why wouldn't you have a direct, honest conversation with your manager?

I'll tell you why.

Because it can be terrifying.

You don't know how they will react, whether you'll be forced off interesting projects, put at the top of the layoff list, or similar. You can watch how they handle other situations and get an inkling, but you don't know.

Good bosses won't react like that and there are many good bosses out there who want you to grow and will work with you to achieve your goals. But there are plenty of bad bosses too.

From this perspective, it's a lot easier to just pack it in, write off the boss and company, and find a new job. It's less satisfying, to be sure, but less terrifying.

It's taken me a long time to realize how important it is to have a boss you can have a direct conversation with. It's also a factor of my experience and knowledge of my self-worth too.

If I were a new developer in my first job, it'd be a lot harder to have a tough conversation with my boss, because my alternatives would be fewer.

Maybe "communicating with your boss" is a skill folks need to be taught.

Uncomfortable, scary, yup, but necessary.

Yup, and IMO definitely less scary than finding and starting an entirely new job.

Would love to read an article on this! Do you have any reading to recommend?

>From this perspective, it's a lot easier to just pack it in, write off the boss and company, and find a new job. It's less satisfying, to be sure, but less terrifying.

This exactly. I've tried having 'difficult' conversations with my boss only to wind up on their bad list.

Thankfully I'm at a company with a strong culture now and I'm much more financially independent than when I was younger.

For way too many (bad) managers, deliberately initiating a 1:1 with them can feel like calling the police in the USA. You have to really consider your options, because you have no idea what the police are going to do. They might be cool, or they might shoot your dog. They might arrest the wrong person, or they might even ignore the call. They might get pissed at you and start harassing you every time they're in your neighborhood. Obviously with your manager, nobody is going to get shot, but I've had bosses that were so unpredictable that you wouldn't voluntarily risk talking to them, because who knows how you might come out of the conversation: Your problem might end up worse, you might end up with more (or less) job responsibilities, you might get on their "bad list" (or even their "good list"), you might get fired. You never know ahead of time.

If you feel like that for your boss, that's reason enough to leave already.

Oh man, I had one whose mood was based on the stock market. When the market was up, have a 1:1 with him, as he'd praise you, give you a little time off, maybe even a little bonus just because. When the market was down, he was on the warpath and nothing you did was good enough. I got fired on the day of a particularly steep NASDAQ drop.

> You don't know how they will react, whether you'll be forced off interesting projects, put at the top of the layoff list, or similar.

Yep, this has happened to me. So if I'm unhappy, I usually just start sending my resume out. I never ask for anything (big) from my boss unless I have an offer in-hand.

So many manager stories where it doesn't sound like they even did a basic check in with their subordinates...

Communication is a two way street for sure.

But I haven known plenty of devs who keep their heads down and bemoan their boss and wouldn't say anything to them anyway. Hard to know how a person feels in that case.

From the sound of it the OP really did go out of their way to try to talk this one through. Of course communication is a two way street, but communication is basically the only job a manager really has at the end of the day. It is their primary responsibility and they should bear the brunt of the responsibility for any communication breakdowns. Sure devs can be hard to talk to. Managing people is fundamentally a hard job. That's why it pays well.

Yeah I can't say for any given person, OP, what they did or didn't do.

Some. But there is also that thing where manager is supposedly paid for superior social skills. And lately I am realizing, that good 80% of communication work in the manager-developer relationship or within team is on developers. I mean, yeah, partly it goes with power differential where person lower on hierarchy has to do that work and management simply dont have to.

But seriously, it would be nice if managers would put a bit more thoughts and effort into ... communicating and people.

Agreed, it is a two way street... but that means both have to participate for it to work too.

Sometimes I think the fact that some devs move into management / senior type roles, not always great for communication. Yeah they can talk about bits, but the rest gets lost at times.

> Sometimes I think the fact that some devs move into management / senior type roles, not always great for communication. Yeah they can talk about bits, but the rest gets lost at times.

Not a single person I had in mind was previous developer. Just to be clear. As much as it is popular to knee jerk assume that developers dont have social skills, this one is much LESS pronounced with developers.

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