On the cheap, like a local, and without a lot of luggage
walkingtheworld.substack.com
walkingtheworld.substack.com
As someone who grew up in the global South, this reads to me like a person from a privileged background trying to relate to the everyday people in other places and the marginalized- but it comes off sounding like a lot of projectionand assumptions- it would read much better if the conclusions were accompanied with dialogue from people, maybe explanations of where those statements are coming from.
>I don’t travel like most people do I would think most travel is done by a wealthy few, but most travelers aren't wealthy- if that makes sense? It sounds like the "travel" being referred to here is "flying somewhere and being a tourist" but in fact to many people "travel" means taking the train/bus to another city, staying in a hostel, wandering around. Most people who go to see a wonder of the world do it because this might be the one time in their life they can afford to visit NYC, a place many people dream of seeing, and so they want to experience those things that are iconic there. I guess it really stands out to me, this writing sounds like "I'm not like those other stereotypical tourists" and the stereotypes are those behaviors associated with privileged westerners- which isn't really an accurate representation of most travelers.
From the Istanbul post:
>Most Turks are not secular though, and neither are they religious nuts like them Arabs
He considers education by traveling as sufficient, which I believe is not the best approach. Might be a good idea to read up a little about the history and cultures of a region before going.
There is a lot going on with his writing that comes off ethnocentric, uninformed, insensitive. I'm not going to dissect it, but I'll just say I recommend familiarization with cultural geography, anthropology, and ethnography if the topic of understanding people in different places interests you- because this blog is rife with problematic bias and some really broad generalizations that are prejudice at best, racism at worst.
FWIW, it looks like he's watching: https://twitter.com/Chris_arnade/status/1580993239670136832 So maybe he'll take your criticism.
From his Istanbul post:
>Because being an addict here is an ugly and gross rebellion against a town that feels like a single massive mosque. A place that is welcoming, humble, peaceful, and sublimely beautiful. It is like pissing on an alter. A gross, ugly, and rebellious act that will bring scorn and shame. Both in the physical and spiritual world. US cities by comparison have all the ethos of an office park. Drab, soulless, and endlessly competitive, where selfishness is rewarded. Being an addict there is like pissing on the drab shrub at the edge of a massive parking lot. It doesn’t feel that wrong. It even feels a little right. Especially if your a tad depressed. A tad isolated. A tad lonely. And many people are."
There is an issue here with this attempt at documenting people but without taking the time to learn and understand how to do it respectfully, ethically, and with consideration to the people he's observing. I want to believe his motivation comes from a good place, that he wants to bring attention to people's lives... but the way his writing reads sounds more like the fetishization of the marginalized and elitism over exceptionalism. It sounds like "yes I'm privileged but unlike those other privileged people I talk to the poors", because rather than centering the voices of the people he claims to "inhabit their tiny slice of the world"(while claiming his goal is "to better understand how they see the universe and their place in it") he dishes out his value judgements. The hubris that all you need to get an idea of how people live is to... show up. He does write that he sees traveling as fiction with the plot written in real time- evidently with him as the MC. He seems to want to change for the better though, and I hope he learns to invest a little more time into figuring out how to look at people's lives more respectfully than as entertainment.
I wrote a book center the voices of marginalized people I spent up to 10 years with during my time documenting addiction in the US. It's called Dignity. I don't expect you to read it, but perhaps if you did, your criticisms would be different.
This project, walking around the world and sending dispatches, is different. While I talk to plenty of people during my trips, its a more macro based approach.
While I appreciate your takes, I will say your making some pretty huge assumptions based on one article. Such is life!
Take care and be well
When I was a kid, my decently wealthy grandparents visited on my birthday and offered me $100 if I'd cut my "garish, girly" hair down to a more typical length. Self-righteous allegories aside, I still feel that choice burned into my head like a brand. They let me choose between living as I am, a resented shame in a family too poor to buy cans of Coke or Pokemon cards, or take $100 to humiliate myself for a few short moments. In the end I rejected them, but I'd be lying if I said I didn't dream about yo-yos and Bakugan that night.
Nowadays I thankfully live in a different economic strata, and I even sympathize with your curiosity to explore different cultures and lifestyles. You should stay fully aware of your optics at all times, though. Sometimes, the greatest charity is treating other individuals with the same respect you give your peers.
If you read Dignity, and come to the same conclusion. Fine. But this thread is based on a Wiki page.
Congrats on Living in a different Eco strata. That is well done! (no snark intended. Genuine congrats)
It is in fact one of the most thoughtful and nuanced reads on what it means to be marginalized in the United States, and shines a light on voices and communities that are almost completely ignored, or fetishized, by mainstream media.
He’s being graceful, because anything else would sound silly or like self promotion without that context. But your criticism really is misplaced.
If you care about these issues you should definitely dig in a little and read his book, it’s worth it.
In my experience. Dealing with tourists like this generates mostly bemusement. They come into your life, spice it up for a little while, and then they disappear again. You don’t expect anything different.
I don’t think most people consider that they’ll be written about on some random travel blog later, nor that it will be in any way relevant to them.
> too poor to buy cans of Coke or Pokemon cards
It’s so weird to read this and then consider that some people do/did see this as the standard of being ‘not poor’. I’d have never considered myself poor, but every time I read stuff like this I wonder if others would have considered my family so.
> It’s so weird to read this and then consider that some people do/did see this as the standard of being ‘not poor’.
It's all relative. Both of my parents were working full-time and also addicts, which made the money pretty tight. There were definitely weeks where we lived paycheck-to-paycheck. Again though, none of this is to throw a personal pity party. My larger disagreement comes down to his methods.
There's a certain burden that comes with being from the areas you've covered, which based on my limited reading of your Substack (today) I think you understand. Being a Florida boy might help too. Rust Belt came out some time ago, it was after I got out of the military I believe. I remember not being a fan, mainly because I felt like it would fuel stereotypes about "back row" Americans. I think I was wrong at the time assuming your work would be fuel for that; much of America is already predispositioned to disliking the Midwest and South for a variety of reasons. It probably didn't help I was living in a trailer at the time and at a low point of my life; in that way, I think it was a reminder of what the mirror looks like (though I was not a Trump voter, Rust Belt covered a lot of culture too).
In some way, I think because there's a burden for the people who live and escape those experiences there is also a burden for you in telling that story. We are stuck in a state where front, and maybe middle row, people often just do not have a point of reference for McDonalds being a local watering hole (as an example). I see it in online discourse, I hear it in the areas I've lived in with my job, and I feel it in the runs of politics. I still thank my lucky stars I was able to leave, but I had better opportunities and luck than most.
All that to say, I'll buy Dignity. You at least dared to tell the stories of people whom the most powerful parts of the United States call "flyover".
I always hated that term. There was always supreme irony in it - after all, “flyover country” is where the Wright brothers are from.
I think you are ignoring middle class mass tourism. Between the privileged few who stay at chain hotels and the people going for once-in-a-lifetime experiences, there are many people who travel as tourists once every year or two.
Growing up in Finland in the 80s, I got used to an environment where most families could afford traveling around Europe. If there was a nice destination a travel agency could charter flights to without fighting the regulators for years, it was quickly filled with cheap hotels and restaurants catering to middle class tourists. Getting there was usually 1/3 of the costs, the hotel was another 1/3, and the money you spent on other expenses was the final 1/3.
Today flying is even cheaper. Regardless of whether you are from a nearby town or from another country thousands of kilometers away, the costs of staying at the destination are likely to dominate.
He has biases and he is travelling to confirm his biases; not to change them or let new ideas in. He is using a bit of a rough language to attract readers and collect up-votes.
The cheapest places to travel are middle-income places like Thailand and Vietnam, where there is plenty of local demand but wages have not risen to Western levels yet.
Lots of people (Westerners) are doing it every year. They have groups and connect with one another. You won't be alone.
You just use "unreasonable transport, hotels", which is fine if you're the kind of "traveller" the author claims to be. Due to cost of living differences, they are still much cheaper than Thailand and Vietnam.
It's only "very expensive" if you go for luxury in those places (and even then, due to cost of living, it's cheaper than comparable luxury elsewhere, except if you go to some place that only caters to the elite). For exampke, if there's no transport in a country in Africa, you can usually just hire a guy to serve as a driver for several days - and it's often less than what you pay for a simple train ride betweem countries in Europe.
My firm has conducted over 50 projects in rural Africa last year, and the cost of living and transportation is most certainly inversely proportional to how developed the area is.
The local options simply aren't available to outsiders.
Highly recommend his book Dignity. https://www.amazon.com/Dignity-Seeking-Respect-Back-America/...
Some of his work in the Guardian: https://www.theguardian.com/profile/chris-arnade
I found a Flickr album here [0]. I also vaguely recall a long form article, talking about a few different people's lives, but I can't seem to find that one.
[0] - https://www.flickr.com/photos/arnade/albums/7215762646801687...
OR make it only show on consecutive visits (not the first one), and make the "let me read this first" option a bit more obvious. I've been looking aimlessly for an obvious X or No and missed the option the first time around.
Also, can you somehow turn off your subscription popup on your website just on the "About" page (where I'm not reading any of your content yet)?
You seem to have some nice candid photography.
More seriously, though, your friend would have needed to either freeze the peanut butter or put it on a sandwich in a serving of less than 3.4 ounces.
Also can't help but point out your characterization of Hanoi as the Indianapolis of Vietnam is ridiculous. Perhaps in comparative size, but Hanoi is the old capital of Northern Vietnam, and remains a fascinating vestige of what "old" Vietnam was like. No offense, but Indianapolis is Indianapolis.
"That doesn’t mean entirely ignoring places like NYC, Istanbul, Seoul, or Tokyo. Some cities are so important they can’t be missed, and every city is a confederation of very different neighborhoods. NYC is as much Dyker Heights as it is Upper East Side.
That makes where you stay in a city more important than the city itself. "
I wasn't attempting to suggest Hanoi is the Indianapolis of Vietnam. I was Just using a stretched example to go to the less obvious place. Maybe I'm wrong, but the vibes I got here in my world is Hanoi is the less obvious place compared to Saigon.
In my own country (New Zealand) when travelling I try to find places that are small (less than a few thousand population), perhaps without any accomodation (a sign of being a tourist destination). One great advantage of going to small towns overseas is that they are safe. Tourist cities are the most unsafe places I have travelled to (I particularly had unsafe situations in Rio and Nha Trang).
Perhaps apply your restaurant thinking, but just go a lot lot further down that path?
In many countries, I have felt like a millionaire, because the difference in income and situation is so profound. In Vietnam I remember talking with someone who’s monthly salary was USD50. I have met many people who had a disposable income of a few dollars a month. USD50 is less than my daily budget which is pure disposable money and is relatively obscene wealth (cost of flights alone exceeded USD50 per day: flights are expensive from New Zealand). I was just tooling around, like some sort of rich playboy, with no cares because I had been given everything by my country. I also remember how small many people were, because their food intake was limited by their means. I have very little capacity to relate, because I have never been in similar shoes (I do remember being astonished at the casual wealth of some Japanese and Americans when I was younger, but I haven’t lacked for anything in my life so it is entirely different).
I notice the same dynamic at home: my income as a software dev is radically different from many people I know. My disposable income is ridiculous: one acquaintance worked 40hours a week and was left with $20 to spend on themselves after expenses. I struggle to relate with a profit of 50 cents per hour.
i agree with most of what you say. maybe not the part about picking the worst season. i'd mellow that one to "avoid tourist seasons". i want to go somewhere there there are not many other foreigners.
i also went one step further after i finished studying, and went to places to actually work there, for 6 months, or a year, or more. in one decade i lived in a dozen different countries. i always connected to local linux user groups and local chapters of other communities that i was part of. (if you practice some sport, then join the local sports club to continue practicing). i went to local tech events, even if they were in a language i didn't speak. just showing up regularly allowed me to make new friends.
one thing that was important to me is that i intentionally didn't reading anything about the places i went to. i want to experience a place without it being colored through the reports of other foreigners.
and in a manner i am still traveling. i have been back home to visit, but i haven't lived there for more than 20 years.
You mention the local linux groups. My brother, who does something similar to you, uses the local Ping Pong clubs. He is a top rated player, and its enough of a niche sport, but one that is everywhere, that its a great international community
Next time if you have time, come and enjoy your education in Saigon.
Thanks again
Put another way, (which can seem attacking, not my intent, I just can't think of a way to say this better in a short comment) the tourist has an experience an inch wide and an inch deep, the traveler has an experience a mile wide and a foot deep, and the person who goes to live in a third country for a term that includes the word years has an experience a foot wide and a mile deep. We just should all recognize what our experiences are.
Solid writing, rolling is the way for clothes, one backpack where at all possible(mine was larger than yours, but still so much easier to just carryon when going to visit somewhere), and I greatly enjoyed my visits to place I described as 'Wichita, $COUNTRY', just not as much as living somewhere for years.
There's just so much variation, it's hard to really say. I've known people who lived in a country for years, don't speak the language, and live in their small expat circle. I've known typical tourist types who found themselves living among the locals because they ended up on a local tour. Or people that don't live in a country, but have studied the language and consumed the local media to an extent that they have a better understanding of a lot of cultural trends than people who lived or visited the place.
In the end, it's probably best to let go of the idea that any one person is going to see the "true" place, or that one city is more "authentic" than another. Everyone, even the locals, are just going to know some piece of a much larger whole. I'm not sure how useful it is to argue about which piece is better than the others.
>The US equivalent is to go to Indianapolis instead of NYC or Houston instead of LA.
This is a really odd thing to say when Hanoi is the second largest city in Vietnam (larger than LA) and a huge tourist destination in itself. It's more akin to choosing LA instead of NYC.
Another thing you have to remember is that there are a lot of southern Vietnamese in the US, who brought their food with them. The average American has experienced more of south Vietnam than north without ever having visited.
Seeing the difference between a city that I perceived to be kind of emulating western culture (Ho Chi Minh), versus Hanoi, which has a culturally distinct feel about it, can reasonably lead a person to see a touristy city as a more cultural experience.
From an ameri-centric point of view, HCM is inundated with a kind of unpleasant or generic tourism (eat at these places, eat on a boat, go to this market, go to this tower, go to these museums, go to these "palaces," climb into vietnamese tunnels) compared to Hanoi where a lot of the tourism is related to both food and how beautiful the country is. It's kind of the difference between "this food is objectively good" and "this food is new and interesting."
Beautiful pictures!
I am also surprised there's no mention of train travel. I found this the best way to get to know a country and its people. When you're stuck on a train for hours you end up talking to your fellow passengers.
India was great for this as everyone was chatty and spoke decent English. Vietnam was a bit more of a challenge on the language front but you still got to have some interesting conversations in basic English with some help by showing pictures.
I did not go very far off the beaten path in Vietnam but I really enjoyed the vibe and night life in Huế.
And then there are people like me who always disliked chatty strangers, even back in 2000.
What I've found helps the most is asking questions. Any time you can ask someone a question they open up and you end up making connections and learning so much. Usually it's simple stuff like sitting at a full bar and asking the person next to you how the sandwich is, or what is on their pizza. Next thing you know you're making a friend and you're actually having real conversations with locals.
Eat in silence and leave others to their own, that's the key to the local culture here. Especially in situations like public transport, people like their silence on their commute.
Someone who shudders at the thought having to answer "what's a good place to eat around here" before scuttling away into the shadows, wounded, isn't going to give good social advice.
But if you want cultures where it's particularly easy to talk to strangers much like in southern USA, latin america is always good.
Aside, there's nothing wrong with standing out as someone with enough social grace to connect with others around you. Being too scared to talk to someone because nobody is talking is a self-limiting belief. Be someone. Leave an impression. As Matthew McConaughey says, stick in people's minds like wet dogshit. Be the guy so brave that he can risk it all by asking "what's a good place to eat around here" to a stranger.
Kind of a random question, but what do you think about van life aka Instagram tourism?
We're seeing a lot of stacked rock piles, trash left at campsites, defaced natural formations, just people in general crowding into areas that used to be "secret". We have a sense that people visiting here don't share our values around leaving no trace. Is that happening everywhere? Is it a trend? Will it get better or worse? Etc etc.
When my kids were younger we went on a camping trip every summer in a state park. There was this one group of people that we would hang out with each year (I called it "redneck corner") who were easily the most friendly and welcoming people in the entire campground. They would feed you, watch your kids, hand you a beer when you came by and we would just sit by the campfire and shoot the shit until the wee hours of the morning. They had nothing in common with me and my world and I loved it. I still remember their stories today.
Reading this post of yours today reminded me of those times, your writings (I loved Dignity), and the need for me to get out of my private office in my house and actually meet people who are different from me again. Until I figure out how to do that, I want to thank you for everything that you do to help me better understand the world a little bit better.
You gave a tip during a panel in Chapel Hill about learning from others by switching where to get your morning coffee, e.g. from Starbucks to McDonalds, or more local places. I've added it to my list of tactics and am richer for it.
I live near the spot you showed in the example that you picked.
I would suggest next time trying out another method, not based on restaurants, but on using Historical Map: look at the city and go back 100 years, then look at the city in the present, and either choose a place that has not changed at all, or a place that was a slum and now is housing.
My favorite observation, Chinese apartments with dedicated areas to hang dry clothing outside, the drying area is fenced off, in some places I saw, using decorative columns, with line/bar put up to hang clothing on. Apartments have a large window that opens to the fenced off area, and a stick with a hook on the end is used to put clothing out on hangers. There is still some privacy of what is being hung up, and it looks much neater, and presumably it keeps birds and such away.
Wonderful bit of home design.
Another bit that stuck with me, I was staying at an AirBNB in downtown Mexico City, when I went out in the morning I saw store owners mopping down the fronts of their stores to get rid of the dust and grime. I've never seen stores in the US care enough to bother.
[1] If you come to the Pacific Northwest and don't hike a mountain or go out on a lake, why the heck did you come and visit in the first place? And as a third gen Seattle resident, I've done plenty of shopping at Pike Place Market.
Thanks again and always enjoy when a post of mine makes it to Hacker news. I appreciate the feedback, and actually listen to it, and when wrong, try to adjust.
Thanks again!
Don't get me wrong, exploring other areas of Hanoi is a wonderful experience as well.
The places where you don't see another white person for weeks on end (mostly in the North West of Hanoi... especially Ha Giang area).
The places that are really hard to travel in if you don't have a local who can speak the language. Why hard? Because just getting food or even a place to crash in a random tiny town late at night (because it took you too long to drive there), is a real struggle.
Have you ever visualized your GPS tracks(if available) of your walks around a city?
I believe the most excellent choices are best made on the ground and the expedition is a great way to explore.
The airport genericizes travel. It removes distance and vastness and remoteness.
Flying gives you an MP3 - and that may be good enough - but it is not the band playing live in someone’s living room.
Getting there puts the flyer among travelers very much similar dealing with very much the same things at the same time. Airport food, flight delays, seat pitch, luggage limitations, etc., etc.
Traveling light as virtue is heavy baggage exchanged for a 61 key synth and a worn tea kettle.
YMMV.
This resonates so much with an experience I have had once. My wife and I visited Japan for a couple weeks and we went to 4 cities: 3 big classic ones (Tokyo, Kyoto, Hiroshima), and a small city that a relative used to live in: Beppu, which is not at all a tourist destination. In fact Beppu is so off the radar that one of the only guided tours available there to see local gardens and one monastery was by a guide who didn't even speak English. I didn't see a single restaurant menu in English. There was not much to do except randomly exploring neighborhoods and trying random shops, walking along canals, people-watching, bathing in the local hot springs (which were completely empty), etc. We were immersed in a tiny city with just people living their normal lives. And yet, Beppu was my most favorite experience in Japan. It felt like the real Japan.
I saw this recently with the issue of migrants in Martha's Vineyard, where people thought the entire island was populated by millionaires. There's a lot of wealthy people who go to these places for the summer, but the year-round population is much more complex. About 1/5 of the population are actually recent immigrants from Brazil[1], and if you look at the local school notices you'll see they're printed in English and Portuguese.
In an effort to get an "authentic" experience, it's possible to overlook the authentic experiences that are right in front of us.
[1] https://web.archive.org/web/20220920163318/https://www.busin...
> I prefer to travel to a city the time of year its most uncomfortable. So like Montreal in the winter, or New Delhi in the summer. I want to see a place when it’s at the apogee of its essence, not when it’s the most comfortable. A kinda, if you are going to do X really do X thing. It’s also when it’s a lot cheaper.
No, sorry, if you visit New Delhi in May, Tokyo in August or Montreal in February, you're going to have a pretty miserable time.
For someone who has experience with such weather and has adapted to it, it's not a big deal.
I wouldn't presume to tell other people how they should feel, but giving them a head's up that it may be miserable if they're not ready for it is wise.
Winter in Montreal just needs the right clothing, but then you’re not packing light. A proper winter coat, gloves, boots, etc. will need way more space than exists in that tiny backpack.
Tell me you’ve never lived in a place with actual winter without telling me. The clothes aimed at locals are designed to be a 5 to 10 year investment. Not a jacket you buy to throw away in spring.
That said, you are right that unless you’re in a place like that, the correct gear isn’t even available for you to buy.
But while you’re shopping, and the trip in from the airport would be pretty miserable.
The "cheap, serviceable, but used" is... fairly picked over by the locals (and especially the homeless).
Consider San Francisco for a moment and the daily occasion of tourists who suddenly find that the fog rolling in the evening is cold and then buy the "cheap" (but horribly marked up) jackets that aren't the right size in which they stand out like sore thumbs.
Or they could go to the Salvation Army store and buy a winter jacket - consider the availability of them there.
Or they could go to REI or Farm and Fleet (I know there aren't any F&F in SF) and buy a new winter jacket there.
After childhood, locals have winter clothes that often last 5-10 years or more (and they pay for durability). My winter jackets are from '10 (I've got a medium weight photographer's jacket that I got in Keeble & Shuchat in '01 that I still wear... wish I could find something like it again). My father's winter jackets are in the 10-20 year range.
I'm also going to note the plural. Locals will often have two or three "winter" jackets depending on the weather.
The only time you get a jacket for a season that is cheap is for a child who is going to outgrow it by the next winter.
If I buy winter clothes in my home country, the clothes will be ugly, expensive, and I have no way to make sure if they even work for their intended purpose. It's too hot here.
But when I go to countries that have actual winters, especially First World countries, then I can find decent winter clothes even in, say, a Target.
> The clothes aimed at locals are designed to be a 5 to 10 year investment
Not if you shop at Target :)
We're comparing https://www.target.com/p/cutter-buck-mission-ridge-repreve-e... (and honestly, the puffy jackets are... to me, as a local to the upper midwest, those... they're not what you see many locals wearing... some, yes... but not many) to things in https://www.rei.com/c/snow-jackets?ir=category%3Asnow-jacket...
Easy yes, cheap, not so much.
I've spent a few weeks in Tokyo and Kyoto mid summer (though less extreme I guess than this summer) because of business trips and you can "manage"--in the sense that you can limit activities during the hottest parts of the day or just in general--but I don't really recommend picking visits at those times unless you have some specific reason to.
Montreal in winter on the other hand is fine. But, as you say, you need the right clothing which can be reasonably compact but isn't going to fit in tiny luggage. (And activities will be at least somewhat different from in summer.)
I'm a fairly compact traveler in general (just carry-on usually) and you can get off with a lot in temperate to warm climates in urban locations where you don't need to dress up. But I also don't like to pack only those things that I'm sure I need. For example, I have a little kit bag of miscellaneous stuff I mostly don't need but am sometimes glad I have.
We had similar in AR back in 21 and I was outside in a tshirt or if more than 10 minutes the thinnest windbreaker ever. (Single layer of plastic and compresses to a baseball size or so.) I might go to a hoody at -20 but not sure even then.
Depending on where you live it might be winter already there too so not necessarily a problem as you already wear the shit and remove what you don't need during the flight. Otherwise you just have to wear them when you enter the plane and put them back in the ikea bag that was in the coat's pocket the rest of the time.
OSHA recommends offices to be cooled below that point, with 24C/76F being the upper end of acceptable. Some of this observation is also dependent on metabolic rate, which makes opinions on this somewhat gender-skewed.
Skiing in colorado is best end of March into April. Crowds are completely gone and snow is the best.
Most countries have more than 4 season in practical terms though, and going during the "seasons inbetween" is my recommendation. In Australia, the indigenous have up to 6 different seasons they identified depending on the location/tribe, and they have more nuanced events expected for each season. Most countries are like that in real terms, so intimate knowledge can get you a great budget off-season holiday experience.
The beautiful summers are so great it makes the winters tolerable.
For example I always take visitors on a river/lake boat tour. Even though I grew up here it always blows my mind mind. The problems is those are completely shut down in the winter.
If someone wanted to visit me in the winter and “act like a local” I don’t know what I would suggest, maybe stay indoors where it’s warm.
As in all cases, careful research can reveal opportune times that you can balance with your other goals. If you want to see the cherry blossoms in Japan, you're stuck to a very particular time, for example; but I don't think they put away Mt Fiji until very late in winter.
I'd still recommend it. But it taught me to pack based on the weather forecast and historical weather. I make sure to bring a warm and dry enough outer layers that I can sit outside for an extended period.
In the winter, it's a cold, wet and relatively low interaction time of the year. I assume some place have a high, low and dead season for tourism, and I personally aim for low, but to each their own. Quebec in general is a great place for winter vacation, just have to go outside Montreal island.
>I also bring lots of cash
Best travel advice I ever received, pre-Internet era (but still relevant):
Bring twice as much money, and half as many clothes, as you think you are going to need.
Pure wool is more fragile than cotton, but pretty comfortable these days, resists odor, dries quickly, and is easy to sink-wash.
Shoes are the one thing I have yet to crack — hard to find ones that dress up and down well.
Look great with jeans (even shorts, IMO) and work with a suit. I recommend you getting the Bushacre version, as the effectively turn any moisture on the ground into ice. Cheaper, too.
Lots of interesting little posts and articles, but few enough to read them in an afternoon.
Shoes are hard.
Personally, I tend to use one of:
- Astral Loyaks, which are minimalist boating shoes. Fine for casual style, and can work out in them - Chuck Taylor's, again casual but super flexible style. Again, you can work out in them - Good leather town boots. Can walk anywhere in them and they dress up excellently.
For the rest of my clothing, I tend to wear things Lululemon's collared shirts and long pants, which are technical fabric but look downright dressy.
I spent most of 2019 in SE asia, and full-service laundry was just too good, universal, and cheap to pass up. About a euro/kg everywhere. Never any problems.
Sink washing and dealing with damp clothing was a time suck I always ended up regretting.
Some locals (as if they're museum artifacts!) don't live cheaply; or have learned your language; or are overeducated; or buy in bulk; or like to travel too (can a local travel?); Are they not authentic? Not able to teach you something? You've heard from them already, I guess.
(Well, the Shatner version, to be exact ;) )
Author uses Airbnb. /facepalm
I have one advice for you - don't use Airbnb, small guesthouses are way cheaper than any Airbnb in SEA and busy areas have often lot of competition pushing prices much lower than done deserted areas, you have no clue about cheap travel.
And if you want really local experience then stay at CS hosts or find whatever you can like when I argued about price in one Thai island with owner and they suggested for price I propose I can sleep somewhere in floor, which I said it's fine with me, couple from bus station heard us and I ended up sleeping on mattress in their bus station office.
Also Hanoi is less touristy and more local than HCMC? You what? Who is this noob? I enjoyed motorbiking around Ninh Binh a lot, Hanoi is like top 1 or 2 most touristy place in Vietnam, heck even Hue or Danang are less touristy than Hanoi.
For an article by someone who travels a lot there's a tone here like that friend who comes back from some trip to tell you how much more amazing X place is and all the wonderful things they do better. Things that are different often make big impressions. I'm always skeptical of these ideas, how many people you meet, what that really represents and so on.
Otherwise I probably agree with most things in the article, granted somewhat aspirationally (I wish I could pack that light) ;)
Of course, once you've seen how The Vagrant travels it makes the rest of us look like pretentious bourgeois pretenders no matter how regimented our carry on bags are. :P
It's a dirty, dangerous and cold way to travel. A bit like the guy that packed himself up in a crate to get back home; not something I'd ever really want to experience myself.
other than that, he doesnt explain where he showers, does mcdonalds offer shower+washing at their restrooms across europe?
I'm not saying that's bad, I probably shower once a week, haha but I am in my home and "can" shower whenever I want, I'm just too lazy
He had one Zero Halliburton carry-on case. Had about three changes of clothes, and all his tech gear in there.
He would travel for months at a time, but always used just that case. In many cases, he slept on the plane, and never even got a hotel room.
Once he became a VP, he had to pack a suit, so he had to add a suit bag.
How did he shower/bathe?
Doesn't sound like such a great life. Anything short of a bed is pretty awful to sleep, let alone planes; even less once-a-day long-haul flights that would allow any acceptable amount of sleep.
I'd guess "never even got a hotel room" is an exaggeration.
No, it isn't. It wasn't that frequent, but he (and others) did, from time to time. I traveled with him, many times, and can attest to a lot of it (I'm a wuss. I'll always get a hotel room, and insist on a night of rest).
It was the life he chose. I suspect that he leveraged the extreme. It did get him a Corporate VP seat, after all (and the fact that he's one of the smartest bastards I'd ever met). I don't know if the office would have been much less stress. Japanese work culture is pretty intense.
I am surprised he didn't mention once asking the locals. That is my key to knowing how people live in different countries. Also you get tons of inside information and it is an easy step to connect to people. Often times you get 'adopted'. You find yourself as a special guest on a private family garden party. Or on parties in locations that only the 'cool people' know it is open because Corona regulations mixed things up.
I am currently recording hundreds of videos to share all knowledge on YT.
An interesting way to say thank you to all the people who helped you: send in the copycats!
Ideally, it'd be really nice to find a group of people who also want to go travelling and who are also more into it that I can join along with. Not like a tour guide, I'm not a huge fan of strict activites and basically just want to go foreign pubs, but a few people who I can socialise with and who know what they're doing, that'd be great, but so far Google hasn't turned up a lot.
Anyone have any advice for somone like me? For some reason I know the more granular advice like "travel light", but don't really have a clue about the much broader stuff like "go to x"
My advice would be - go to Rotterdam. Take the Eurostar there, pick literally any hotel.
Open up Google maps, find some bars. Pick a couple of museums or parks. Built a rough itinerary for, say, a long weekend. If there's a Pride event on, that's fun. If not, just go wandering.
Everyone there speaks decent English. Food and beer is great. Good culture. Adequate weather. If you're gregarious, chat to people in bars, clubs, concerts. If not, look at Greeters - https://internationalgreeter.org/
They're locals who will show you around the city.
Have fun!
Cheers for the help!
You can occasionally find sites that highlight the most social "party" hostels in each town, or you can get a feel for it based on if their pictures feature extensive communal areas, an on-premises bar, pool tables, etc.
Basically go to any destination that seems appealing, stay at one of those hostels in the dorms, and you'll make friends quickly.
It's not all about just getting trashed together, oftentimes the people around you will tip you off to what's worth seeing and doing in the area, and will even want to join you or have you join their group and go do these things together.
It can be a lot of fun, not to mention typically the cheapest option for housing while traveling.
Edit: More to the point of "go to x" - I'd highly recommend Southeast Asia as a great entry point to travel. It's beautiful, very different from Europe/North America so it really feels like you're traveling, it's got the gorgeous tropical beaches, rainforests, beautiful architecture, unique street food scene, etc that all feel very foreign to anyone who's lived in the West for most of their lives, it's overwhelmingly safe, probably the cheapest place in the world to travel ($3-$10/night for a hostel, $1-2 for a meal from a street vendor), and it's a very popular destination with plenty of hostels and fellow travelers to meet at those hostels and befriend.
In terms of a couple specific destinations to start out with, take a look at Thailand, especially Koh Phangan and Koh Phi Phi, and Bali (Canggu and Ubud areas).
The most extreme experience I had was for a brief stay in Thailand, where the main tourist streets are filled with ridiculously glamorous looking and very busy restaurants serving the blandest meals (by anyone's opinion) with the most watered down and expensive drinks I've ever had. I don't think anyone could ever eat at one more than once.
But within only a couple streets distance you can find amazing street food for a fraction of the price and eat like a king, which is exactly what all the locals were eating. Some westerners might be a little worried about hygiene but they cook it right in front of you and honestly I think the tourist restaurants were a complete facade and are probably have far less hygienic kitchens hidden away... Since then, in foreign lands, I'm more wary of places filled with tourists and few locals.
What I often do is meet people through Grindr and try to get a short term romance. The relationships that ensure are quite profound and it creates a very special connection with the place. Maybe through the eyes of the person that you've met.
https://twitter.com/PaulSalopek
https://www.nationalgeographic.org/projects/out-of-eden-walk...
I'm not sure why the author acts like those are the only 2 options. I spent a year living in Ho Chi Minh city and the vast majority of the city of is not aimed at international people but at the 9 million Vietnamese speakers living there (districts 1, 2 and 7 being the exceptions).
That being said, both HCM and Hanoi are subcultures of their own and don't give any impression of a 'typical' Vietnamese person's experience. If I were to look for a completely ordinary city, I'd pick a random city with a population of around 500,000 and nothing notable on Wikipedia.
If you want an "non-touristy" experience, go to mid-sized cities like Can Tho or Ben Tre in the Mekong Delta. They have lots of tourists, but they tend to be local. Everyone else there is just living their life.
Or go to some small rural town. Not much to do, but you'll get a glimpse of how a large part of the population lives.
Can you? This doesn't seem to be the case except in countries where the real exchange rate has drifted from a government-imposed one. The spread on my credit card and ATM card are low enough (very negative, in fact, on the credit card when we consider cashback) where if this were the case I would be able to arbitrage against said jewelry stores.
Also, a lot of places around the world (where I go, especially street food type places) don't accept cards.
Taking local money out of bank machines is a huge rip off. Huge fees and bad exchange rates
Again, this is assuming that there isn't some sort of black market for exchange that's causing published rates to diverge from real rates, but that's only the case in relatively few countries.
Oh man this is hilarious. Places with zero commission end up charging the absolute worst exchange rates. You're better off paying a small commission/fee and getting a good exchange rate instead of those zero commission places that don't charge a fee and fleece you with a crappy exchange rate.
Maybe, USA banks are better, but not everybody live in USA and has USA credit card.
I don't understand the advice here either. It's not hard (at least as someone in the US) to find a card offering no foreign transaction fees, and I thought everyone agreed that the card network conversion rates are about the best you're going to find as traveller.
ATM fees can sometimes be unavoidable, but sometimes even finding a functional ATM was a blessing, so ...
If your credit card doesn't carry high fees for the service, the network currency conversion is the way to go.
Here is the key. My bank takes 2.5% commission on any transaction not-in-card-currency (in addition to about 0.75-1% commission of MasterCard/Visa system itself) and something like 0.5% for cash withdrawal in any ATM of any other bank, no matter in which country or currency.
And, oh, wait, if it is true credit card (non debit one) I don't have grace period for cash-like transactions and need to pay card interest from first day (for "buy" transactions I need to pay interest only if I don't resupply credit card after month end + 20 days).
And it is typical conditions in my country. Some banks has conditions slightly better, but they have other problems.
When typical spread for cash exchange in South-East Asia is about 3% (+1.5% / -1.5%) to FOREX, which is much better.
Typically: you could exchange $1 to 24000 VND now (oh my, I remember when it was 16000), but if I withdraw VND from my debit card (which is in USD, not my native currency) it will be something like 22000 VND per USD.
Other example: I'm in Armenia now, and I exchange USD to AMD on the street as 1:406 (406 DAM for 1 USD) without any commission (xe.com shows 1:401 right now). When I BUY something (not withdraw money!) with my USD card it is about 395-390 AMD per USD.
I have Visa card with Euro (I know, strange combination) issued by Serbian bank.
I'm in Armenia right now, and street rate for Euro is 390-394 DAM per Euro (no commission).
My last transaction with this card is 5300 AMD / (13.65 + 0.14) Euro = 386.86... (Don't ask why this bank shows one transaction as two, it is something like sum at block correction at charge?). I can not withdraw cash in ATM in Armenia from this card at all, transactions are simply cancelled, so I can not say, which rate it is for ATM. But in Serbia I've payed 0.5% for cash withdrawal.
i remember annoying my hosts once because i insisted on checking 3 or 4 places to compare rates and make sure i didn't get ripped off.
Yes, I'm not from USA, and we don't have any cards with real cash-back. Typically exchange rate for all banks in my country is like xe.com + 3-5%. It is terrible.
Only one time I seen really monstrous exchange rate for cash: in Istanbul airport. It was complete rip-off. Exchange booths in Istnabul itself were better than my bank exchange rate.
And typical spread in exchange booth in Myanmar is 0.1%. Yes, 0.1%. Like, 1000/1001 per dollar if you have $100 bills (worse for $50 and lower).
Ahh, now I understand where the disagreement is coming from. For US cards, it's not cash-back rewards which make them a good value for foreign exchange. It's that the networks (eg, VISA, or Mastercard) offer currency conversion rates which are much closer to par than local retail services. (or, your bank, apparently.)
This article has a few good example charts for the networks:
https://www.thinmargin.com/blogs/visa-vs-mastercard-who-give...
Typically there is a 1% fee for the service. However, many premium cards will waive this fee as a privilege. If you have access to a card like this, it's a no-brainer.
I don't know how is it work, but I see such transactions in bank's online service as "Transaction Amount: xxx.yy AMD, In account currency: zzz.qq USD" and when you divide one by the other you get something like 5-7% difference with FOREX exchange rate (of course, not to you side!).
If your card is in native currency, it is even worse, as there is double-conversion via system currency (USD in case of Visa, EUR in case of MC).
I don't know, why our banks have their own exchange rates and not Visa/MC rates and how Visa/MC allows this.
1) an account in the local currency with a debit card;
2) credit cards without foreign transaction fees and cash- back
3) ATM withdrawal with a no-fee debit card
Changing USD in cash to get local currency is almost always the worst option. They charge 5%-10% on the exchange rate plus whatever fees.
> As I see it, it probably really is good for the soul to be a tourist, even if it’s only once in a while. Not good for the soul in a refreshing or enlivening way, though, but rather in a grim, steely-eyed, let’s-look-honestly-at-the-facts-and-find-some-way-to-deal-with-them way.
>
> My personal experience has not been that traveling around the country is broadening or relaxing, or that radical changes in place and context have a salutary effect, but rather that intranational tourism is radically constricting, and humbling in the hardest wayhostile to my fantasy of being a real individual, of living somehow outside and above it all.
> To be a mass tourist, for me, is to become a pure late-date American: alien, ignorant, greedy for something you cannot ever have, disappointed in a way you can never admit. It is to spoil, by way of sheer ontology, the very unspoiledness you are there to experience. It is to impose yourself on places that in all noneconomic ways would be better, realer, without you. It is, in lines and gridlock and transaction after transaction, to confront a dimension of yourself that is as inescapable as it is painful:
>
> As a tourist, you become economically significant but existentially loathsome, an insect on a dead thing.
Personally I think tourism is fine, it’s a fun break from normal life, and it can broaden your views sometimes. It’s neither “existentially loathsome” nor does it make you somehow superior to the people that can’t afford it.
It is commendable that the author is going to these lengths to experience what they are after. I'm not sure it has to be quite this extreme: for instance, you don't have to deliberately visit in the worst possible weather to experience the place authentically, especially since you're already going off the beaten path to places where most tourists aren't going to visit anyway.
The only problem with this sort of travel is that you're not really getting to live as a local, no matter what sort of condition your subject yourself to. Real life has bureaucracy, waiting in line for boring stuff, sometimes concerning stuff. It has limitations that stem from what you make, while visiting significantly smaller economies you are disproportionately wealthy and you don't really share the locals' means for survival.
No matter what you do, you are still a spectator, and while you're learning about different cultures and lifestyles, it's okay to have some fun.
But I have to say, looking back, the most fun moments were less curated. And one example that I remember is walking through Gent with a friend of mine, feeling hungry, and stopping at one of those kebab stores. My friend and I had traveled to Turkey at some earlier time so when we asked the guy running the store (who was quite obviously Turkish) if he knew where I could get some fistikli kadayif (the wrong i but my keyboard is US) we ended up having a really fun conversation with someone who hadn't been to the country of his birth in a decade and really just enjoyed talking about it.
Personally, I'm a huge fan of these human connections. I really wish I could mind-meld with people and just absorb and share everything I've seen and they've seen and experienced. We can't, so this is what we get.
But besides that, when I as young I wrote copy for a bunch of these sites/magazines freelance and the 'research' was incredibly shallow. So what you're going to get is some teenager's online echo of some other teenager's online echo. Then everyone is convinced that only Giovanni's Shrimp Truck is the place to go. So if you just go next door to the other shrimp truck without the line, you'll get 99% experience with 1% trouble.
Following the herd has its value in that shared experiences themselves are of value but there's fun to be had in not that, too.
* Pack immodium for food sickness, this style of travel guarantees it. Add some ORS packets to your bag too (don't just trust gatorade or whatever)
* The new iPhone SE blends in remarkably well everywhere, it looks like a 7 year old phone.
* I feel much better in foreign hotels than AirBNBs. They generally adhere to some form of security backed by a legal standard, as far as door locks, and having guards on the property goes. AirBnB is great in trust-based societies, which travelers on the beaten path are not visiting.
* As cheap as possible for flights isn't the wisest choice, especially after covid where a lot of low cost carriers have cut corners on maintenance (see google news for spicejet over the past few months for more)
Now whenever I go on a multi-day trip I'll deliberately pack on a few extra pounds before departing while in keto mode. From there it's a painless transition to simply not eating, and after 48hrs it feels like a potentially infinite modus operandi. No need for pooping in random foreign places and less demand for bathing daily, no need to carry bulky/heavy food... These problems are effectively reduced to just drinking water and finding places to pee.
I know, not everyone's like me, that's fine. "Just don't eat, it'll make your vacation easier" is nonetheless one of the stranger life hacks I've seen proposed.
I think you're saying this with a straight face?
I'm definitely saying it with a straight face, but I also ceased abusing food as entertainment and a primary source of short-term happiness over a decade ago.
Except what I'm referring to is traveling, as in, actually in-transit.
If you're boarding a plane to spend just one night somewhere, then yes I suppose I'm suggesting just fast the entire trip. That's not a form of travel I engage in. Obviously while visiting a foreign place for months I'm not suggesting you abstain from eating the entire time - it's impractical and missing the cultural experience.
What I am saying is when you're hoofing it days with a backpack, or boarding a 52-hr train ride, or bikepacking a couple days, it's substantially more pleasant in a fasted state. No bulky food to carry and you won't have a dirty bum/as much want for a bath.
For example I'll be riding the Zephyr from IL to CA (~2.3 days) at the end of the month, followed by a 60-mile bike ride from the Sacramento Valley train station, east up into the Sierra Nevada. I'll eat a few whole chickens in the days leading up to the train ride, and won't eat again until arriving at my destination in the Sierra Nevada. The train ride won't require #2 bathroom breaks fasted, and the bike ride will be 100% adipose-fueled, light, and way more fun in that state. Of course I'll be eating meals with friends in CA over the following months though.
Yes I frequently fast when traveling, if you don't count the tomato juice I take with coffee on planes. Usually don't eat until sunset.
If you model enjoying the fuel that we require to live as abuse, well, you must have reasons for that. I decline.
Nothing wrong with appreciating food. It's when one can't refrain from eating something rewarding for a few days without a substantial deleterious effect on mood/happiness for lack of the frequent short-term dopamine hits that it becomes an abusive relationship resembling drug addiction.
Popular things are popular for a reason, I just can't fathom missing out on them on purpose, with the sole reason being that they are popular.
If I pay thousands for flights and hotels, it's definitely to see what's unique about the place, and after having lived in 4 very different countries (and my girlfriend in 10+), I can tell you that the locals' way of life is definitely not unique anywhere in the world.
Wake up, go to work, go for a drink with colleagues or friends and go back home (and everything in between) is the day to day routine of the vast majority of people, no matter which country they are in and which standard of living they have.
It's not because some do it in a megalopolis with skyscrapers and some in a wooden shack in the middle of the mountains that the way of life is different.
Yes, we all breathe, eat and die. Day to day things are different. Interactions are different. Food is different. The time you spend between work and sleep is different.
Saying that "the way of life" is the same between South of India and the US is completely laughable.
“Going to a bar” in the US and Korea are completely different experiences because the culture is different. Same deal as “going to a cafe”.
And of course it’s a different experience doing those in a megalopolis versus a tiny village.
there are still differences however, and i don't agree that the local's way of life is the same everywhere.
Meh, it really depends. Some places look amazing on cameras and especially on drones, but aren't that interesting if you're not a bird.
Specifically, "un-popular tourists" generally don't like to hang out with hundreds of other tourists, pay exorbitant fees and being hassled by street sellers anywhere they go.
> the locals' way of life is definitely not unique anywhere in the world
This reads like satire. You can't tell me that life in Vietnam is anywhere near life in the US. I don't need to visit any tourist places in Vietnam to enjoy living there.
Does anybody here have a regular job and family and take multiple multiple-week trips per year? If so, how do you do it?
Do you find that working on trips impacts your itinerary or choice of accommodations?
> choice of accommodations?
I have to make sure there is working space for 2 and good wifi and internet so I had to pay a little more on those trips and carefully read reviews and look at all the pictures. I'm not a work from a coffee shop person. I need quiet.
> impacts your itinerary
Not so much, though we don't really plan that much. While working you can stay a little longer. So it becomes do one thing in the afternoon, or in the morning. I like trying lots of new food and exploring cuisine so filling the day with work then eating is fine with me. I did the work-cation thing more on surf trips where I was surfing a lot, less tourist focused stuff. Did this in bali, kauai, puerto rico and europe
The US equivalent is to go to Indianapolis instead of NYC or Houston instead of LA.*
Uh huh. Indianapolis is a great idea for an international traveler. And while you are at it, go visit Indiana's state parks instead of Yosemite or Zion /s
Try Đà Lạt if you want to travel like a local.
I like somewhere in the middle. I seek out highly-rated restaurants among LOCALS as a starting point. The fewer other tourists I see and the less English the staff speaks, the better. I also mix in places I see on the street that look good - they may not even be on rating apps; sometimes I get lucky that way too.
I too, in general, avoid starting with "pre-packaged" experiences when traveling. My most memorable experiences were only possible because, like the author, I travel light and don't plan too far ahead and mostly avoid being spendy. There's a kind of looseness and spontaneity that is possible if one plans generally and keeps funds available to take advantage of opportunities that only crystalize once you get to where you are going.
But the high-handed tone in this article, denigrating the popular attractions countries are known of, feels entirely at odds with that philosophy.
> I stay away from the coolest neighborhoods in the world, which all end up being variations of the same thing.
If you have spent any time traveling, you know this is a silly thing to say. Even the most tourist-y places like Bali, though you see similarities, retain a national character. They are also generally very different from the rest of their host country - bubbles with their own rules and features. This is a feature! I have never regretted spending some time in heavily tourist'ed areas. Being catered to and seeing how culture shifts is interesting and fun. Taking a break from forging your own path and doing some pre-constructed-fun is nice. The reasons those areas are popular is because they are interesting and fun!
To me, a lot of this comes down to balancing the time you invest in figuring out how to spend your time and money v.s. the time you want to take "doing the thing." If you have a low budget, then just kind of scrap around (you don't have a choice so there's no need to pretend this is some crazy tip). If you have a higher budget you have options! You can jump right into a pre-planned experience for a little bit or you can scrap it a bit and see what turns out. Ultimately, for most of us, even if you travel on "the cheap" you are still actually planning around a budget of how long you can skip work.
I 1000% think that, if people have never taken just a carry on to a less touristy city in a foreign city, you should consider it. But the experience is a close cousin to the one you have when you are in tourist land and the two approaches support each other.
I know from my own home city, Seattle, that this is bad advice.
If someone comes here and doesn't do any of the tourist things, hike up one of our many many mountains, go to the rain forest, spend a day out on Lake Washington, or stop by one of the many Sea Fair events, then they aren't actually doing the things that locals also do.
Because, surprise surprise, locals around here also go hiking and camping and go watch naked bicyclists.
Go to the "touristy" parts of Japan, and they are filled with Japanese residents doing fun things! Feeding the deer in Nara is something everyone loves to do, so don't be elitist, go do it! The fashion districts in Tokyo are amazing, go buy an outrageous new outfit! Anyone who spends half a second looking around will see that plenty of people who live there have done the same thing.
Likewise, the large museums in different countries are all worth visiting. The museum in the Forbidden City has dioramas made out of gem stones, they are one of the most memorable things I have ever seen!
I agree, staying at an Air BnB in a "safe but not cool" part of a city that is still on a transit line is a good idea. Eating at local restaurants is a good idea, but wow, the author is so self assured that his way of doing things is superior.
I agree that if someone goes to an all inclusive resort in Mexico, then they haven't visited Mexico. I encourage everyone I meet to go spend a week in Mexico City (CDMX is one of my favorite cities!!!), it completely destroyed any lingering bullshit stereotypes I had about Mexico. (Fun fact: Mexico City has the second largest metropolitan GDP of any city in North America)
But, again, also, GO DO FUN STUFF.
So, going into a trip, you will know about the "pricey" side of the cool stuff in that area. That's fine! Those things are still cool! But if you hang out a bit and look around at what the locals do, you will pretty quickly learn about the "cheap" side of the cool stuff in the area. You will also discover the day-to-day parts of being in a city or town that lead people to live in that area: small shops, hole-in-the-wall restaurants, street food, the bar scene, etc.
if i visit a tourist place, then i do it with local friends, and my interaction is focused on the local friends and not the rest.
you may say that not everyone living there makes money from tourists, and that would be true. but why should i make things hard for me, instead of going to a place where only very few people make money from tourists.
I think, what I am getting at, is that this sentiment equally applies to every industry. You will find similarities if you compare any two tourist areas. You'll also find similarities between cities with healthy financial services sectors, or towns with small fishing industries, or towns where light (or heavy) industry is the main source of employment.
Tourism is just a way of making money, just like any other. It's normal and expected to get bored of tourist areas (because they are often the areas you go to most) - but the fact that you (or I) are bored of them does not make them worse than any other area.
If this article's pitch was "I got bored of tourist areas so here's how to travel in other places" I would be into it. Instead it is suggesting that tourist areas are somehow lesser than where people are living "real" lives, which is pretty off-putting and, as I said above, strongly clashes with my own travel experience.
what bothers me about tourist areas is that if i go there, i am the target that people want to make money off. just as i don't like advertising, this is a reason for me to avoid tourist areas or tourist seasons even if i have never experienced places like that before.
that doesn't mean that i'll avoid tourist places at any price. i'll still go there if the place is interesting enough, but the peddling i am subjected to always leaves a sour taste. so the problem for me is not getting bored by those places, but the difficulty of meeting people that are genuinely curious about me as a person, and don't just want to sell me something.
I used to avoid Pier 39 in san francisco because it was an overpriced tourist trap.
But recently I went there and had a lot of fun. I just relaxed and accepted the mini donut place and the left-handed store. And I genuinely enjoyed the USS Pampanito submarine and the Ripley's Believe it or not museum.
and the bacon wrapped hot-dogs...
It wouldn't work for me, but I really respect that they're able to do it.
It's not that visitors should avoid locales like the Mission (personally a lot of it is probably more interesting than Fisherman's Wharf) but it's not surprising that overall areas with a lot of housing or downtown businesses don't necessarily overlap with tourist attractions (though they probably do in SF more than some other places. Seattle may be a more obvious example although there are many that make a lot of sense.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/walkingsf/albums/7215762420915...
Do you realize that you rich life style is impacting more poor people from south who will never take a plane ?
1. Travel alone.
2. Always politely brush off people that approach you.
3. Approach people that look like they're having fun.
Alternatively, go places where you have a good friend who will let you stay with them.
Fiction changes you? For the better?! Mostly?!?!?!? I need some expansion on this. I have been living in the non-fiction darkness.
I like covering a lot of ground and coming and going whenever it suits me.
My most treasured experiences were from being a regular somewhere. I think that is the most important lesson of the post. Friendship is proximity + time, so without spending a lot of time in one location you won't make friends.
Random aimless walking through non tourist areas is also an enriching activity.
I also found that traveling to places local people would visit to be far more interesting than the major tourist destinations.
If I had one uncommon piece of advice, it would be to invest in an extremely comfortable pair of shoes. After your phone, your shoes are by far your most important investment.
I personally prefer to travel with more stuff, although the author is absolutely right that you almost always travel with a lot more than you need. I like large cities more than the author, mostly because larger cities have more English speaking people so they are significantly less isolating. In larger cities it's nicer to have more clothing (and shoe) choices. I travel with a 55L osprey bag. I put all my electronics and papers in the day bag, and in the main bag I have clothes shoes and toiletries. If you know you are going to a single climate, you can pack less, but if you are going to both hot and cold places, you will want to pack more. The size of your pack mainly determines the rate of your laundromat trips and number of times you have to wait at baggage claim.
If you are an American tech worker, your credit card is almost certainly better than cash anywhere you can use it. I could also withdrawal cash from ATMs at the official forex exchange rate with my bank card. You do have to be very careful because all forms of payment will ask if you want to pay in local currency or your own currency. If you choose to pay in your own currency, you will be charged a predatory exchange rate, so you must always pay (or atm withdrawal) in the local currency. I left the US with $400USD and came back with $300USD after a full year of travel abroad, I gained a lot of peace of mind from traveling with cash I wouldn't be heartbroken to lose and electronics (chromebook) that I didn't particular care if they were stolen or destroyed.
After traveling without valuable items, I did feel mildly deprived. I would put a grand or two aside as "just the cost of traveling" money and use that as my "bad things happen sometimes" budget to get peace of mind about having valuable stuff in poor areas. If nothing bad happens, call it karma and donate it to a good cause.
The author talked about visas. The hardest problem for me was that countries wanted round trip tickets. They wanted a ticket showing you were going to leave the country. This can often be circumvented by buying a $10 bus ticket out of the country. That's the only way I found to reliably purchase one way tickets to various countries ad hoc.
> When I decided to go to Vietnam, everything and everyone told me to go to Ho Chi Minh City. It had better food. More art. More high culture. Less government. So I went to Hanoi.
I experienced this when I visited Vietnam as well. I thought Ho Chi Mihn felt kind of empty and not too different from other major cities. Hanoi was a wonderful city and felt much more lively. I liked Da Nang a fair amount as well.
A lot of the authors post can be summarized fairly succinctly:
If you want to grow as a person, you need to be uncomfortable. So don't optimize for comfort.
You can choose big comfortable cities with comfortable sights, comfortable food choices, and comfortable companions, but that won't lead to personal growth.
Yes, sometimes being white is a boon, and people will treat you nicer or more respectfully than they would a brown person. I'm not trying to say being white is a negative, I'm saying it is really dependent on where you are traveling to.
Like I go hiking. Wake up, go hiking, spend 8 hours away, go home, and then ... what do I do after that? I cannot sit still. So I end up being on my laptop.
the question is what is the purpose of the vacation. if it is to take a break from work, then maybe you want to find activities that help you take your mind of work but aren't boring.
you enjoy hiking. i do too. but when i get home i am either exhausted, or i write a diary. if i was alone all day i might seek out a place with other people.
> I don’t travel like most people do
The author follows that up by saying they’d rather travel to a place like Indianapolis than NYC. In your words author, enjoy spending 4 weeks in Indianapolis living out of your book bag, not doing trips to other cities, sampling the local restaurants of Applebees and chilis, all while using the glorious public transit they have to offer.
Have you been to Indianapolis?
[0]: https://walkingtheworld.substack.com/p/walking-america-part-...
You have a point about needing a car in any number of such smaller cities in America, but even in those places there is a central core that remains relatively walkable.
They're often pretty small though. I'm not familiar with Indianapolis specifically, but there's one smaller city I visit semi-regularly for work. It has a nice (relatively gentrified) downtown but it's, to be generous, maybe 15 x 10 blocks. And beyond that you mostly need a car. I'll have a day to kill there in a month or so and I'll probably end up renting a car for the day.
I also worked downtown of a similar city about a decade ago. Same thing. (And both old mill towns.)
Just go on a trip, and do what you want to do. You don't need a philosophy behind every little detail - I find this takes away. People care more to brag about how they travelled with just 1 bag than tell you about the places they actually went...
This article is based on lots of request of those people asking me for an article like this.
is your subscriberbase enough to cover your cost of living?
maybe this is stuff for another post :-)
I was surprised on a recent trip to Europe that my (fee-free) credit card got me almost exactly the exchange rate I see on Google. Much better than ATM withdrawal with fees or any posted rate I saw in towns. Also all the internet advice about needing cash left me with lots of unspent euros and zlotys, I used apple pay almost everywhere (in fact my cash was refused in some places!) Maybe a covid-times switch away from cash, not sure.
I always want to have some cash but it really depends on the country and location how much.
I just got back from London and Dublin. I took my ziplocks of pounds and euros over and, aside from tossing some coins in the donation bucket at a London museum (and I think you could donate digitally) and using my Oyster card, I didn't spend a single coin or note. On the other hand, if I were doing an extended walk in the English countryside, I would absolutely want to have a couple hundred pounds with me.
I have a feeling my widespread traveling pre-COVID during which I pretty much figured I'd always have a use for most of my baggies of foreign currency is going to leave me with a fair bit of unused cash going forward.
On the other hand, in cheap countries like say Georgia, Kyrgyzstan, exchanging paper currency (especially USD) to a local currency and back to USD is almost free (<~1%)
- rolling things into logs (time consuming and not space-saving), rather than using compression packing cubes which are quick and easy, organized and actually save a significant amount of space.
- Packing your own tide pods (risky, heavy and unnecessary), just buy detergent locally or use a full service laundromat which is common for locals in many countries
- If you have to wrap cords with hair ties, you have too many cords (I'll admit this one could be personal)
- Peanut butter and jelly sandwiches are a terrible option for travel food. They're soft, squishy, messy and don't last long. If you want to travel with food, pack granola bars or trail mix.
if you say something like
> They’ve got such a strong self-image, a strong desire to be seen as special, that many residents have become actors playing NYC, or LA.
Then claim your traveling like a real local, i cant help but feel your kind of full of it. If this is your take away, you didn't travel like a local, you didn't meet enough new yorkers. Probably met an extroverted transplant and judged from there. A small part of what makes up a place like NYC. Its like someone is looking to feed their bias about what a place should be like.
>Cities where the residents are more focused on living their life, for themselves, not for a global audience.
This is what NYC is. 10 million people, and you think they're putting on a show for a global audience?
Be a local always bugged me. Its seem to always be followed up by, hang out in dive bars and crappy restaurants and do poverty things. I'm local, my friends are local. We don't hang out in dive bars, or eat at crappy restaurants. Why would i think that is the thing to do in another country? After traveling a bit, if you cant speak the local language you'll never understand what its like to be local or understand their life.
I can rant more i guess but w/e
Where I do diverge in opinion w/ the article (and agree with you on) is the whole idea of traveling "like a local", as a lot of traveloguers like to call it. I think the best most travelers can expect is maybe some curiosity from the community they're visiting, but they'll never have the full local experience. Only locals get that experience. You could live in a foreign city for years and even learn the language, but you will always be an outsider to the people in that community. You will never gain the years of culture and context that comes with having grown up in the area you are visiting. The best you could ever do in that situation is accept it and be gracious and courteous to the people in those communities.
I'm from the US. Having lived for years in each of New York, LA, Seattle, and 6 other metro areas, towns, and census designated places in the US ranging from ~3000000 to ~300 people in the American South and West, I pretty strongly disagree. All places are bubbles to a degree - that's what makes them definable as places.
Having lived outside the US for the last decade, and for months-long stretches over the decades before my current (indefinite) expatriation, it could not be clearer to me that - as people within the larger place (bubble) of the USA - the median New Yorker, Angeleno, or Chicagoan each has more in common, culturally, with the median Dakotan, Alaskan, Alabamian, or Puertorriqueño than with the median Irish, Bedouin, Xhosa, or Punjabi.
And I cannot but reserve the deepest contempt - truly - for those who would exclude city dwellers from full citizenship within their national polities. The combined metro areas of New York City, Los Angeles, and Chicago alone are about a sixth of the total population of the USA. Add your examples of Boston, DC, SF, Seattle and you're at 20%. As of the 2020 census, 55% of Americans lived in a metropolitan area of greater than 1 million people. The "real america" narrative is an 'othering' trope, used in the service of dehumanization for political ends.
America's cities are real America.
>Then claim your traveling like a real local, i cant help but feel your kind of full of it. If this is your take away, you didn't travel like a local, you didn't meet enough new yorkers.
Similarly in LA. Anytime someone says that "everyone in LA is fake," I find that reflects more poorly on them and how they spent their time there than it does LA. Big cities are different, not inauthentic.
> Real America is a very old place. The idea that the authentic heart of democracy beats hardest in common people who work with their hands goes back to the 18th century. It was embryonic in the founding creed of equality.
This Atlantic article from last year puts "Real America" into a frame with 3 other narratives: "Smart America", "Just America", and "Free America".
"How America Fractured Into Four Parts" https://archive.ph/r5udO
"That doesn’t mean entirely ignoring places like NYC, Istanbul, Seoul, or Tokyo. Some cities are so important they can’t be missed, and every city is a confederation of very different neighborhoods. NYC is as much Dyker Heights as it is Upper East Side.
That makes where you stay in a city more important than the city itself. "
That quote "doesnt mean ignoring ...nyc..." reads more like NYC is a great show, go their for entertainment and spectacle of what it is, but somehow that's not real america.
Nowhere do I talk about Real or Fake or whatever. Everyplace is as real as any other place. Its about who you want to meet. How fancy you want stuff to be. How packaged.
Well, statistically it's true. I've visited most of the US, and NYC is very different and not represenative. If you want to see how "the other 96%" lives, better visit elsewhere. The same is not true for most if not all other states: they have their unique culture and might be rich or poor and so on, but not is as different to the rest as NYC. Not even Los Angeles or Miami.
I don't think most people legitimately enjoy "empty military museums" "walking across town aimlessly twice" "visiting in bad weather" "watching bad soccer matches" "eating at the same place three quarters of meals for 8 weeks"
I do 4-8 month backpacking trips semi-regularly and try to visit new countries whenever possible... But even I can't find a single piece of appreciable advice from this whole read.
There is something to "not being a stereotypical tourist" but that's easy enough to do by being polite, and paying attention to what is going on, and wandering off the beaten path now and then.
Visiting off-season can be a great deal, especially if you're not concerned with weather (for example, if you're going to be visiting museums in Rome, they will be open during the rain as well as the shine).
The other - just like I don't follow Richard Stallman's extremism but find some of his ideas interesting, I think she of the mentality in the blog post could be applicable to most people. For example, staying in a hip neighborhood in Paris for a couple of weeks but taking half a day to visit some niche "people just live here" suburbs or countryside.
Not in and of itself, you are right, but I do enjoy the happenstance encounters along the way. Like the time I was aimlessly walking through a neighbourhood in a far off city, heard someone holler in my direction, and out of that was invited in to join their barbecue. I don't remember the rest of the walk at all, but I sure do remember the fun people I met and the great time I had there.
Living in Seattle, there are certain parts of downtown that I would normally feel comfortable walking through but was warned by locals about gun and drug violence.
There are many examples of lost tourists in Mexico or South America that get approached by drug traffickers on YouTube.
It is extremely difficult to go wrong in Vietnam, but there are many places that appear peaceful but are actually run by crime.
Of course when I visited her home town and walked up a hill for the view one afternoon, I didn't think that much about a syringes off the side of the trail, but her family lost their minds that I had been in the most dangerous part of the city, "people are killed there all the time".
We are terrible about judging dangerous areas outside of our cultural experience. Many westerner's can't even identify a RedLight area in Asia, "Why are all those women wearing such short dresses?", "all those girls (actually boys) are really dressed up nice".
I get what the writer is getting at, and I think some of his ideas are fine. I envy his travel time. And I'll have to make my way to the tips on packing, because the one time I did go overseas, I way overpacked.
FWIW I do enjoy walking around town aimlessly - if you haven't done it, you should try. It's how I've experienced Boston, New York, Munich, Belgrade and San Francisco. Of course I find a few places online that I should check out, like the fortress in Belgrade or the Eisbock and gardens in Munich. But "aimless walking" through ubran areas is the essence of peace for me. I am rarely happier.
For urban/semi-urban travel (i.e. don't require a lot of specialized gear/just in case supplies) carry-on is pretty doable for most people--though I wouldn't go as far as tiny backpack. It requires a certain mindset. You're not going to have a lot of outfits and may be dressed on the downscale side if you go to nice restaurants, etc. Make a lot of things do double/triple duty. You may be washing some clothes in the hotel sink. You're prepared to buy something you need in a pinch.
I'm not fanatical about it and do carry enough stuff to want to drop off a bag wherever I'm staying but rarely check luggage either.
When I travel via air, I wear the least compressible shoes possible (boots) on the plane and squeeze loafers or tennis shoes in the bag. My blue jeans are upscale enough to look casual but also look well at dinner. And yes, at least one nice shirt is needed for dining out or looking decent at a bar.
Recently (pre-pandemic) when I was doing a lot of travel I did optimize my clothing somewhat for synthetics and merino wool that could be easily washed and dried quickly. And, yes, I usually have walking shoes--whether they're trail shoes or leather walking shoes depends on the trip and some sort of very compact light shoe as backup etc. Also a couple little kits that have all sorts of cables, repair items, basic first aid...
"This style of travel, of aiming to be a local, isn’t for everyone. I’m blessed with a lot of free time, and it’s best done in weeks, not days."
And
"Traveling is my education, so I treat the question like choosing which course to take. What do I want to learn about this semester? For me, currently that’s faith and religion. So I’ve been trying to go to places of deep faith, and ones different from what I’m familiar with. To see faith as it’s practiced by the average follower, not by the high priests, or the most sacrosanct. The local mosque rather than the Blue mosque"
He really does want to create relationships with the people in the places that he visits. And he's done that for years. His book Dignity chronicles a lot of his writing about the differences between the "front of the classroom" and the "back of the classroom" people. He focuses on trying to just listen and understand how other people live rather than sitting back and judging them based on tiny snippets of their worlds that you see in places like the news.
So this is very much on brand for him, and I applaud him for sharing how he does what he does with us. And FWIW he did come from a very Western elite background as well: PhD in particle physics, bond trader on Wall Street before escaping that life at considerable personal cost to live this life of trying to show us how others live.
i really appreciate that idea as well.
that's why I read the article, seeking ways i could develop more relationships with locals. only, I couldn't appreciate any single piece of advice. I've been to soccer matches and museums and bars, none of them led me to local parties, invitations dinner, sailboat excursions, etc.s
for instance i can come up with a few from my experiences:
- Hitchhike, even when you have money and there is a bus route, is a great way to make an excuse to have a long conversation with a local. It also allows them the opportunity to feel like they're a good person doing a good thing.
- if exploring and you think someone is curious about you, don't keep just walking. take a seat, exaggerate how hot you feel, etc. and often that person will approach and offer you tea or water.
- look for local conventions or clubs that are meeting, and spend a few days learning that subculture and attend as a novice. even if its a totally new field for you, people love evangelizing to newbies at conventions.
You could title the blog post "I care about the people, not the place. This is how that affects my travels".
I would much rather go to an empty museum than something stuffed full of people like the Louvre and I would much rather go to a local sporting even than a Lakers game or something like that.
You are a backpacker so you already embrace the spirit of the article. You already have a purpose to your trip that takes you outside of tourist traps. Tourism packages destinations so they all start to look the same.
You are not a contrarian. You have an alternate path to the same goal.
You can even do this locally (no need to travel). My husband and I started biking and often this takes us to unseen parts of our own community.
My favorite activities in Paris were 'not going to the louvre' and 'not going up the eiffel tower' :)
"Please don't post shallow dismissals, especially of other people's work.": https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
Arnade is one of the more interesting writers online these days. Tastes vary, of course, but let's try to avoid the middlebrow dismissal thing here. Your comment would be fine without that first bit.
Secondly, I don’t even agree with the parent commenter, but I actually like that HN has some of this middlebrow dismissal. It’s unpleasant and goes too far at times, but it also creates an atmosphere where I know I’m going to get a “real” perspective.
Not telling you what to do here. Just a proposal in case it changes how you and the squad might want to moderate (or not) going forward!
Again, thank you for all that you do.
I understand the impulse to take someone's work and reduce it to a single obvious gesture of stupidity - it feels good because it feels like one has explained something and expunged an irritant - but it isn't fair and it isn't what this forum is for.
There's another guideline that applies to cases like this too:
"Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith."
I remember his adamance that he would never drink a beer in some Italian place, because people there drink red wine. Meanwhile I’m pretty sure you can find plenty of people around Italy who enjoy a beer, or slivovitz or whatever.
Not only that but you’re not a local- and so what? Travel, that is to say seeing other parts of the world than one’s own, need not involve an attempt at escaping into some other life.