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Comment by _odey | Hacker News Reader

Ok so then the issue becomes: has Apple properly informed buyers they will receive a device without a charger, and they need to purchased one in the same basket if they want to have both at the same time delivered?

If not then the fine is justified. Otherwise I'm on Apple's side on this one.

And when all devices will have USBc cables and chargers I will be on the side of not bundling a charger with the product at all. It will just create waste.

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Maybe its in some fine print or on official product pages. But for at least 95% of the users it was still a nasty surprise when they couldn't find charger (this is true across spectrum, ie Samsung is currently doing the same). Those folks are simply not following all the news and releases. The expectation and reality for 2 decades was that all necessary to charge is in the phone package.

So they effectively hiked the prices of their phones by quality charger. The thing is, outside of US most people don't change phones every 1/2 years. Heck, most of my 90 colleagues who are IT geeks have 5+year old android/apple phones, mostly androids. So folks generally don't have good fast chargers for modern phones, or USB-C output on chargers at all.

I've grown fed up with this and bought a Anker 65W one, I can plug 3 devices at the same time, both classic USB and USBC, its tiny, doesn't heat up even under 65W. Manufacturers, including Apple and most Androids failed in this (although I grok the marketing aspect and overall possibly net income gain for them).

> Maybe its in some fine print or on official product pages

It's literally on the "what's in the package" page when you buy the phone. Do people here comment without even knowing what they're talking about?

Right now when you buy a car you expect it to have wheels. This may change in the future when Apple starts selling cars and you'd need to check if it includes wheels or not. But it's not hard to imagine that people will continue to expect wheels in a new car for some time.

If you buy a car where the salesman literally says "Does not come with wheels" and expect it to have wheels, that's on you.

USB c isn't some universal charging standard. It's just a cable. Different chargers and protocols won't charge certain devices. USB power delivery helps with that but still isn't foolproof.

My car charger with USB pd can charge my Pixel phone for example but not my partner's Samsung. My bike light uses USB c but not power delivery and nothing except its own charger can seem to charge it. My headlight uses USB c and can be charged by everything I've tried.

It all depends on the implementation. USB c is a horrible anti standard in that regard... The cable fit doesn't tell you whether it's compatible at all.

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