Hacker News Reader

Comment by lostlogin | Hacker News Reader

> If you can be fired easily, you will find a job easily. If companies can go down quickly, new companies can be formed in an instant.

In New Zealand it is fairly easy to start a company (in the sense that the required paperwork isn’t too difficult). It’s easy to hire people, but firing is hard.

Why would ease firing mean ease hiring? Why would companies failing easily mean start ups are simple?

It’s not so much that companies need to be idealised, but that people need to be treated with a minimum level of care.

View on HN

If it's easy to fire you won't have to be as thorough when hiring because if the new employee doesn't fit - just waste him/her. If it's difficult to fire the company will put potential employees through hell before deciding. I don't think there's any country where the actual process of hiring someone is a legal nightmare

> If it's easy to fire you won't have to be as thorough when hiring because if the new employee doesn't fit - just waste him/her.

That's super bad for morale and companies generally don't do it unless high churn is normal (retail).

US companies have hiring processes which are HARDER to go through, not easier, on average, than European companies. For example background checks almost never happen, as well as reference requests.

Hiring processes in American companies are still as arduous and drawn out as European hiring processes though. You're still looking at a 4-16 week process, you don't just snap someone up in a week if they're on the market.

It's not necessarily the process, but more the number/type of open positions. When it's difficult to fire, it's very common for people to start with a temporary contract or two before being offered an unlimited one. Likewise, I believe contractors are more common. Basically, anything that offers flexibility.

Also, companies are just more reluctant to open a position.

I'd say the UK has generally had a pretty good ratio of protection from firing and having reasonably sensible interview times. Although some companies do seem to have picked up longer interview practices more recently, this actually seems to be an import from the US in trying to emulate Google, etc.

There's already probation - 3 months in the UK. It doesn't make us less careful though because we don't want to waste our time.

usually the ease of hiring/firing bit is more of "hire the right person for the role", in the sense that a vacated spot can become available for another.

but also, there is a limited amount of capital in the economy, and so propping an "unhealthy" company up with debt will crowd out new, potentially successful businesses. If there are enough zombie companies around this is enough to paralyze an entire economy.

The general observation is that the US has less worker stability, but also bounces back faster than European countries. And the poster child for zombie companies strangling the economy by hoovering up all the credit is post-bubble Japan.

Opening a company is not just the paperwork. We should praise companies falling down as they can create the path for new ones to get up

People do not need to be treated, they're not little babies

No, not babies, they are fellow human beings. While Companies are not, they are just social tools.

Exactly. They don't need help, they should help themselves like true responsible adults

  While Companies are not, they are just social tools

Agreed

What are your views on worker protections?

Companies failing is fine in my view, as long as people are protected. Workers need to be paid and they need sufficient notice of redundancy for protection.

Contracts need to be adhered to with enforceable penalties if broken.

It's easy to hire anywhere. But is it easy to get hired? How much rigmarole does a company put you through to ensure they're not going to get stuck with dead weight? I'm guessing quite a bit, and the harder it is to fire you the harder they'll work to make sure you're worth hiring.

For me it was a 1 hour chat over coffee. For the staff I hired it was similar.

From the moment the decision was made (an hour or so after the coffee), it is usually a month until they are working with me.

We do reference checks after picking a candidate.

The month delay is due to the notice period people are usually required to give their old employer. It could be more or less but is 4 weeks usually.

The process probably varies by industry a lot. If a profession requires a practicing certification you have a minimum standard already. If a profession is tiny, you have a fair idea about candidates before you interview.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com