Hacker News Reader

Comment by nostromo | Hacker News Reader

I’ve always been a supporter of legal pot.

The problem I’m seeing is that once we legalized pot, there was no enforcement of nuisance crimes related to pot.

So while I think it’s totally fine to use marijuana in a private space, I’d prefer not to be inundated with second-hand pot smoke on every street corner or park or playground.

I think legalizing drugs needs to be paired up with stiffer penalties and enforcement of all of the nuisance crimes that come with it.

View on HN

In the grand scheme of nuisance odors, or potentially dangerous emissions, outdoor and second-hand pot smoke is pretty near the bottom of the list.

Higher up might be the hundreds of thousands to millions of cars, trucks, buses, etc spewing enormous quantities of carcinogenic and foul-smelling exhaust. When I open my windows, it's not marijuana I smell, it's partially-combusted diesel and gasoline.

When I ride my bike to work, I pass a chocolate factory. You might think that's nice, but it actually stinks, and covers a vast area with its smell.

I do notice marijuana smoke from time to time, but what, once a week, maybe?

People must smoke very little where you live or smoke discreetly. Even here in Sweden where there are not that many weed smokers I can smell it all the time during the summer when out running. During the winter I might smell it once per week or once every other week due to people having their windows closed and people not hanging out in parks.

Weed smell does not bother me (I think it would be annoying if a neighbour smoked all the time) but it is very smelly.

I live in a metro that has legalized weed. Since legalization it's all I smell when I go into the city. It feels like every other car I am behind reeks of weed. The corners of stores reek of weed. The parks reek of weed. I can't even go see a show without smelling it.

We managed to ban smoking from just about everywhere except for designated zones far away from traffic. We haven't done the same thing for weed. All of that sick tax money praying on addicts and hype is just too powerful. The smell is nauseating and I shouldn't have to wear PPE to go to a park.

In Berlin I smell weed everywhere I walk. I love it

Just because the smell bothers you doesn't mean it bothers everyone.

For instance, smelling most perfumes or colognes gives me an instant headache but those aren't banned.

Smoking wasn't banned from entrances because of the smell - it was because of the proven harm from second-hand smoke.

It's one thing if I can avoid it. I can walk approximately a meter away from bad cologne or whatever. I can't do the same with weed. Particularly strong strains have some pretty crazy carry, even worse than cigarettes.

It's a nuisance that ruins an atmosphere. To be fair, the police and businesses should be working together to ticket these people at the very least. But it isn't being done so I guess my post is just impotent rage at something that society needs to solve. Sucks though.

To me, I think cologne and perfume ruin a building. I think a lot has to do with your olfactory center.

And yeah, some strains carry stronger than otherwise - but as a former smoker, the weed smell goes away a LOT faster than cig smoke.

Weird, I’ve never met anyone who likes the smell of pot. Everyone complains it smells of skunk and it’s true. It’s one of the foulest smelling things

I would argue its an acquired smell, much like beer is an acquired taste.

I live in an urban area in Canada so get where you are coming from, but at the same time I just don't see the actual issue. It's not enough to get anywhere even remotely close to high off of and living in a city is a stinky experience by necessity of accommodating everyone and their diverse food, leisure and work preferences (also, humans are stinky in general, either from BO or from the fragrances they choose to wear to cover their BO).

How is normal smoking policed but weed smoking (an identical action) not?

It's not, at least not where I live. Weed and "cannabis" are the same thing. I quote the actual term for it because I find it hilarious how hard the industry tries to rebrand a former street drug as something more exotic than it is.

Enforcement is spotty, DUI checkpoints are not outfitted with the right equipment to diagnose being too high, weed smell coming from a car is no longer enough to elicit suspicion of intoxication (due to changes in policing), its easy to escape after smoking, etc. People do it because the probability of getting caught is low. The only thing that is policed is the stores, and even then just barely. It's easier to get busted walking around with a beer where you shouldnt than a joint. Some of this is growing pains of a society now having to deal with this nuisance, and some of it feels like selective enforcement because (at least where I live) the tax money coming in for this drug is insane.

I don't care if you smoke weed. I don't care if you do it in a weed bar, or at the weed store, or in your own home. My complaint is strictly that even today I went out and got hit with yet another cloud of skunk coming from somewhere. It should at the very least be policed with the same fervor drunk driving/public intoxication is, with the same punishments, and same criminal record. As it stands now, where I live, there is no deterrent except a small fine and a court date (if you're even caught) so hence, weed smokers do what they want.

My question is why do we not find ourselves exposed to tobacco smoke as often as weed smoke?

The same "no smoking " signs apply to both, yet tobacco smokers generally heed the posted signs while weed smokers ignore them.

Your list.

That is an opinion others might not share.

Also, you live in one place, other people live in other places. So the conditions may differ, you know, from place to place

I often pass a cocoa factory (jscocoa.com in Zaandam) on biking trips to my parents and love the smell of cocoa in the neighbourhood air. I wonder what it is about chocolate factories that makes them smell bad.

The are removing the bad smell and ejecting it, so the good smell remains.

Same like coffee roasting.

It's not the odor I have a problem with, it's that in certain places that have legalized (I gave the example of Denver) a large percentage of people in public are totally stoned, and it's not a good public experience.

I'm not talking about a couple getting high on a park bench and blowing bubbles. I'm talking about feeling a little bit like I'm in the zombie apocalypse, because a good percentage of people are so f'd up they look like zombies.

You can fine folks for smoking cigarettes in places it is not allowed. Including many/most public places. I'm curious why you think that couldn't be done with pot?

Public drunkenness is also not without consequences. By and large, you solve a lot of those not by focusing on stiffer penalties for folks doing them, but by giving them a place that they can do so legally. Is akin to a skate park. Good skate parks go a long long way to getting skateboards off of sidewalks.

It can't be done with pot, apparently, because it isn't being done. If there's any movement to reign in public pot usage I am not seeing it. I think people just immediately resigned to having the entire planet smell like a skunk forever.

Illinois legalized it a couple years ago, and the legislature seemed very concerned with maximizing revenue from taxation and licensing and gave zero consideration to anything else.

I'm in a place that has fairly high usage of it, I thought, but it is still notable when I smell it out in public. :( Where are you?

In Stockholm which I guess has medium usage you can smell it all the time during the summer.

Western Suburbs, and Chicago. It's pervasive anywhere people are!

It seems that weed smell travels a lot farther than tobacco smoke. If I smell tobacco smoke, I can do a 360 degree turn in seconds to see immediately which direction I need to move 5 meters to avoid it. If I smell weed and want to get away from it, I usually have no idea where it's coming from.

Have you been anywhere with legal marijuana? Because what you're describing isn't like anywhere that I've been that it's legal.

It definitely happens. I'm in a legal state and we just had to chase people away from our business because they were smoking pot in front of it and the smell was permeating our storefront. I also get random whiffs of pot smell in really inappropriate places.

I visited recently US and NYC and LA you can smell pot so much that it’s disturbing. I don’t know what’s that exactly but sometimes can smell it even in car with closed AC. We don’t have that strong stuff in EU

So, it's nowhere near every street corner or playground, but I encounter a surprising amount of second hand smoke here in (legal) Seattle. Although it's not really much more than it was pre-legalization.

Huh??? You have definitely never been to downtown Denver then.

I'm a big supporter of legalized pot, but I agree with GP. In downtown Denver, everything smells of weed, and a large percentage of people seem like they're stoned out of their minds. I'm not even saying there is a solution here, or even necessarily a real problem. I haven't, for example, seen any of these stoned-out-of-their mind people get violent, as I have with drunks.

But that said, there was a noticeable change in Denver when legalization passed, and, at least in public spaces, it wasn't good. Walking around in public where so many people are f'd up, and it's not like a bar or something, is a pretty sad experience.

Still seems like a better option than most major cities in California where the zombies just smell like urine and neglect.

There's usually somebody lighting up at the bus stop I use to go to work.

I dunno. I don't mind the smell of weed. I don't really want to smell like weed when I get to work. It is right next to a park so there's plenty of seating away from the smokers. It is a little annoying to have fewer seating areas, but not wanting to smell like weed is just my preference, and I don't think I've got some police-enforced right to never be annoyed.

My gut says we should treat smoking weed like smoking tobacco -- although I'm not aware of any studies as to the effects of secondhand smoke, with weed.

Uhh Humboldt county here. It is impossible to walk for 15 minutes down any mildly busy road without smelling weed from a passing car. Not that anyone here has a problem with it, but your experience is not mine.

My experience in California, Illinois, and Michigan (legal marijuana jurisdictions) is that second-hand marijuana smoke is very noticeable and unavoidable outside in public. Of course, growing up in California, legalization didn't seem to change the situation much.

Pandemic observation: N95 masks don't reduce the smell all that much.

Well, yeah, because N95 masks are all about particulate filtration performance and not necessarily VOC neutralization. The terpenes in weed are volitile organic compounds, something which a different type of air filtration/purification handles.

Perhaps relevant here would be the current approach in South Africa; it’s been decriminalised for use (for adults) in private.

One can grow a certain amount at ones private residence, and consume it freely there as well.

My understand is that outside of this context, it remains thoroughly controlled. I’ve not heard much about it having caused problems yet!

Ref: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabis_in_South_Africa

(Apologies: being the HN pleb that I am, I don’t know how to hyperlink)

> (Apologies: being the HN pleb that I am, I don’t know how to hyperlink)

I think it usually "just works" (I don't do anything special for mine).

Hyperlinks: You did it right, and there is no other way (for better or worse, you can't give links a label)

That's a strange take. Do we not have any enforcement for nuisance (and other) crimes involving alcohol?

We do, but basically everyone has legalized pot now, and they all seemed to have forgotten to do the whole nuisance enforcement thing.

That's how change works. Over time, given a functioning system, we adapt enforcement policies and priorities to the changing needs of our communities. Nothing happens overnight. If it means a lot to you, by all means participate in that process!

i want to warn against "criminalizing" things we dont like. if someone ignores signage about smoking, sure you can shoo them away, maybe bar them from returning. But "nuisance crime" laws often result in marginalized people being harrassed by law enforcement for harmless activity or wrongfully accused of activity. Not everything you dont like should be enforced by cops

Ding ding ding, first correct answer.

legalization has almost nothing to do with people smoking in public.

do you know what heroin smells like? once you learn, you will smell it nearly everywhere in any major city.

So you're in support of it as long as it's only done by people who aren't poor, since they almost certainly don't have a private space where they can use it without running afoul of building rules. And things that are a nuisance to you are a crime. I'm not sure this is the support the legalization movement was looking for.

Interesting how quickly we moved from "Pot should be legalized" to "smoking in other people's face is a universal right".

Smoking anything should be illegal in public. We already have cigar bars, and I know places like Amsterdam have "coffee shops" where you can smoke your weed. I don't see why we can't follow that model.

The acceptance of smoking in general (tobacco, not pot) has changed dramatically in the last 20 or 30 years.

It used to be everywhere, sometimes with a token no smoking section. Hell, ash trays used to be a thing in non-smokers homes.

I wish they outlawed all advertisement for pot stores and any visual indications of the business. Should be a blank building with shut doors and windows blacked out. I don’t want kids to even be aware the places exist. And yes, I strongly supported legalization, and would like it legalized at the federal level.

First let's do the same for alcohol, cigarettes, and guns... all things far more dangerous than pot.

Can you name the last time you saw an ad for a gun store, cigarettes, or alcohol? Outside of a ball game I can't.

Huge variance dependent on geography here. I suspect you don't live in the midwest.

Gun stores and firing ranges have billboards all over the place here in Michigan. Alcohol advertises on television (prominently during sports) but alcohol advertisements are subject to strict regulation, and tobacco even stricter.

Alcohol and tobacco ads are banned in my country, so sure.

Well they all also cause extra load on the health system. Of course, so does marijuana ...

Lots of things are more damaging to society than weed, though -- as a non-smoker, I can't really find much to object to, in the behavior of people high on weed, they usually just act chill and a little goofy. If we're going to hide the existence of weed shops, we definitely should do the same to liquor stores. And I'd also rather hide the existence of some financial services I find objectionable -- payday loans, pawn shops... we might want to talk about investing in general, really, just let me invest in paint companies first though, those Wallstreet buildings have a ton of windows.

> Lots of things are more damaging to society than weed, though

That's not an argument. I live in a metro. I rarely see ads for booze EVERYWHERE. TV, sure. Sometimes even the radio. But billboards? No, not really.

I see ads for weed EVERYWHERE. I can't recall the last time I saw an ad for a liquor store.

They aren't treated the same by society. Weed seems to be able to have complete freedom, while booze is still forced to be hidden. I'm for hiding both in the best possible way. If you want it, seek it out.

Obviously I can't tell you what you see, but around here all the liquor stores have "LIQUOR" in their name, which is generally placed in big letters on the front of their buildings. Not sure about things like billboards, I tend to tune them out, but I guess that's based on local bylaws anyway.

Nothing with any ability to create addiction should be legally promoted. Maybe except sport, but in case of extreme sports as marathons too.

Or you can add requirement of being all addictions free for gaining legal voting rights.

If you can't be impartial in limiting oneself to natural human needs than you won't make impartial decision on behalf of whole nation, community, family.

It's crazy only army recruiting cares about such basic truths.

Humans are already born with incomplete free will, shaped by genes they didn't choose, origin they didn't choose and primed by their environment (starting with their first unique cell creation) constantly. You never become yourself not exercising being alone to discover & purify own identity.

Restricting it & priming body and mind to more subconscious, automatic reactions is corrupting people even more.

You want to help people grow and lift them up to control themselves (in body and mind) & self understanding not make them a drugged zombies.

Every bad stimuli is a step to accept higher dose of bad stimuli. Every addiction is breaking limits to other addictions.

While every good decision & stimuli opens door to more positive opportunities building positive habit. Self restraint helps you learn filtering urges surrounding you (and knowledging need to wipe them clean from around you) promoting clear thinking & conscious, priorities-driven decision making.

Nothing unnatural to human is natural to human ergo humane. To know what inhumane you can tolerate without big harm you need to know the humane first to compare.

This basic intuition never betrayed me. And is infinitely profound.

USA is nation of living zombies. Majority is metabolically ill & drugged - in state of strong addiction to number of things.

Weed is less damaging than excess sugar in diet, non spieces proper diet in general or alcohol. Still any evil is evil. And so happens that most of it is promoted in shops through commerce & marketing without clear education about results of using it.

99% of what you are daily exposed to is priming you negatively & hijacking your "free" will.

> there was no enforcement of nuisance crimes related to pot.

Those are just "crimes". Enforcement is often lacking, but in the public discourse there's currently pressure for less police presence / policing, despite the fact that it reduces crime.

Re second-hand smoke: too few people care, same as cigarettes.

Do you have examples of 'nuisance crimes' related to cocaine? I am currently trying to wrap my head around passive cocaine snorting. Some of the images in my head are quite disgusting. :-)

Stable Diffusion also came up with a lot of quite weird images for the prompt "passive cocaine snorting"

Powdered cocaine can be and sometimes is injected, so needles. Addicts getting high on cocaine can cause all sorts of other problems. Cocaine is very often mixed with other drugs, such as heroin or fentanyl for speedballs. (I wouldn't be surprised if most cocaine consumption is actually in tandem with an opioid, contra the Hollywood image of cocaine.) And don't forget, crack is cocaine.

Yeah someone smoking weed in the park should be arrested... ????

Reply on news.ycombinator.com