The Death of Intellectual Curiosity
unfashionable.substack.com
unfashionable.substack.com
You can read about magical physics in science fiction books or you can read about real physics in science books. The later is much more interesting than the former, there is no comparison. There is a middle ground in PopSci, still not as interesting as real physics but better than science fiction books.
I am of the camp that real physics is far more interesting than fiction to me personally, and I crack open textbooks far more often than works of fiction.
However, I must opine that to say that fiction isn't as intellectually interesting compared to science probably speaks more to your own lack of understanding of the subject of fiction than to fiction itself.
Fiction is far from a settled science! There is tremendous room for creativity. Many competing mental models for how to compose a story, character, the prose itself, how literary themes should interact, etc. etc. What makes a best-seller different from a mediocre book? An endless number of things that can be dissected, experimented with and evolved.
And that's to say nothing about the concepts that can be toyed with through fiction and stories. Setting up a fictitious universe and exploring the consequences of that setup is not so different from asking the 'what if' questions assuming certain mathematical axioms or different sets of physical laws and symmetries.
It's hard to argue that books like The Da Vinci Code, as much I enjoy them, deliver the same sort of commentary on the human condition as something like 1984.
I guess there is this line (emphasis mine), which is suggestive of all fiction but, to use your examples, I'm not convinced the author would attribute it to 1984 the same they would to The Da Vinci Code.
> There is nothing wrong with reading these kinds of books, but you do not learn anything new (besides who committed the murder).
Which is a tautological statement since literary fiction is just a term snobs who don’t read fiction invented for “books that have special artistic merit so I’ll read them even if they’re fiction”.
My point is that the author of the article was a criticizing a specific category of book, so any counter-argument against that criticism should also be specifically about that form. Just saying "fiction as a whole is valuable" seems both obviously true and not relevant to the discussion.
As for Naruto running: let people have fun.
Remember that the focus of the article is on curiosity, not just on acquiring new information.
Anything else is likely to be either sequels or dressed up leftovers and also-ran ideas.
I loled and stopped at this point.
Perhaps the author really does understand GR and the Standard Model to a deep professional level. Or even "simple" domains like machine learning, music theory, political science, biochemistry, or visual aesthetics.
Somehow I doubt it.
I think boredom has been a catalyst for exploration and curiosity in my life.
And during my lifetime the world had gotten better and better at eliminating every pocket of boredom I've encountered (even sitting on the toilet).
Many people who spent a lot of time focused on learning decide that spending a bit more time on physical health is more important. Many have far less time as they raise families. Others determine that putting forth effort to more clearly express the ideas and knowledge they value (whether through discussion or art) is their duty, to make it easier for others to follow, and then perhaps take the baton further.
I spent a lot of time changing my mind about things because I listened and learned so much. I'm still open to doing so, but sadly, after a point you are so much more informed than "the average person" that there's diminishing returns to seeking out alternative views and opinions. And don't even get me started on the "Just read this four thousand page book" recommendation that some people make.
https://www.amazon.com/Human-Life-George-ONeil/dp/092997901X
https://en.giorgiotarditispagnoli.com/post/anthroposophical-...
Intellectual curiosity could be said to want to expand that platform instead of just putting more things on top of it, putting things on top is the default, expanding the platform is done by very few which is why forcing them to spend years in education is so important.
>a free market for universities–and more generally for education—where the consumers decide the value of a service [...] where students don’t pay upfront for their education, but afterward and only if they get a high paying job.
It's that attitude right there that is the very root of the problem! There are tons of fascinating topics people could study and would enjoy learning, but since everyone's so laser focused on that paycheck and getting a high paying job, they don't. Anything that doesn't serve that purpose gets cut. As if education is pointless, only job training matters. And only those profits from "skin in the game," never mind any actual education, learning, or intellectual curiosity.
It's really so incredibly backwards that I have a strong suspicion it might have been intended as a troll post.
And because I read a book this author would dismiss as not being sufficiently august.
The modern world refuses the idea of the microscope, rejects the core truth that underlied the Enlightenment values: there's no point to enlightenment in a universe which is unobservable, where we dont have a way to investigate. The modern world too strongly represents that infernal anti-Human hellscape. And alas, it is only ourselves who are resppnsible for this fall.
Dismissing social science as a hindrance to intellectual curiosity while stating that Karl Poppper's falsificationism is the foundation of modern science is extremely ironic. Being intellectually curious means charitably reading topics one disdains, and a consequence of that is knowing that Popper's views on science is simply one perspective of many.
I remember one of the guys, with no prompting, sharing a map with me showing that there was something like a 2 byte/second emergency radio link between wherever he was and Melbourne.
Advertisers. They are intensely curious about how the human brain really works.
Generally, any group making stuff that somehow hangs together even without profit motive.
They make stuff--so they can't just only be "social". The group continues to exist--so people find it interesting enough to continue joining. It's not making a profit, so the group has to have something of worth beyond pure monetary value.
The big problem right now is simply finding those groups because they often aren't advertising themselves.
And...?
> There is nothing wrong with reading these kinds of books, but you do not learn anything new (besides who committed the murder).
Once again, and...?
Why does everyone seem to have this continuous growth mindset, where, if you're not growing in some capacity you're failing at life? I love reading fiction, and I love reading non fiction. I don't particularly enjoy reading textbooks every waking moment, and that's fine.
Besides the fact that entertainment and relaxation are necessary parts of staying sane enough and having enough context to absorb new information properly, the OP's claim isn't even true. Many bestsellers include copious amounts of information as background - history, culture, even technology. Often that's why they are bestsellers. Try reading Name of the Rose or Hunt for Red October without learning anything. Yes, there's also a lot of trashy fiction that really does contain nothing new, but the author's overgeneralization and outright stereotyping are the very antithesis of intellectual curiosity.
I disagree with the bit about simplicity existing on the other side of complexity. Nothing in my life has turned out that way: I find mountains on the other side of mountains. Everything I learn a lot about just leads to more complexity. Maybe that means I've never gotten over the hump of the distribution, but there are at least a couple things I'm considered an "expert" in, and it's just as (if not more) true in those domains.
Some kids won't listen and continue to ask questions until they achieve some understanding they seek. These kids usually remain curious through out life. I am not convinced this percentage is declining. I'd expect it to increase, but now even moderately curious children have access to a wealth of information and ideas over the internet that will spark more curiosity in them.
Our society is hellbent on automating and commoditizing everything.
There are very few people who do stuff for the sake of doing stuff. If you are a volunteer you’d know because basically there is always a shortage of them, never once a volunteer has been turned down at least I never saw it
People don't volunteer because they want a boss tell them how to spend their free time. They volunteer because they want to do something meaningful in the way they prefer.
Volunteers want autonomy. If you can't provide it, there is no room for new people in your organization. To attract more volunteers, you often have to restructure the organization and change the ways things are done. And sometimes you have to get rid of existing volunteers, because they have too dominating personalities, are too toxic, or are too attached to the old ways.
Turning down volunteers is quite common in successful organizations.
At the beginning you may be progressing really fast and it’s all fun and games until you hit a plateau.
At that point you need a teacher, a mentor, or a guide to give you structure and planning and highlight which subjects are important, otherwise it will take you 10x the time to get there.
Same thing with information. We've turned a problem of access into one of curation. Disinformation is a serious problem, no matter which side of any particular issue you think represents truth. Along with real information we get flooded with clickbait, manufactured outrage, influencer nonsense. Some of these cause far more psychological damage than their minimal information content could justify. Again, the good is there but there's also plenty of harm.
The solution most emphatically is not the kind of intellectual nihilism (misrepresented as curiosity) of the OP. That's just "believe whatever you want" nonsense wrapped in pretension. What's needed is better education about how to separate the wheat from the chaff - a skill most people quite demonstrably do not learn for themselves. It's like putting a first-time driver who can barely see over the wheel right onto the trickiest freeway interchange you can think of. By denying the value of education - by which I mean education guided by someone who understands the scientific principles of pedagogy - we're also denying people the very tools they need to survive. Once they can do that, then we can set them loose with some confidence that they will fill their heads with signal instead of noise.
Citation needed. I'm pretty sure that the people who take conspiracy theories and urban legends seriously are a tiny minority, same as they always were. The Internet has just made this stuff more visible, not more common.
Previous generations had TV mainlined into their brains.
For example: in the past 60 years the trope of nerds and geeks being inferior and unliked served an important purpose: it prevented intellectual curiousity from supplanting dominant structures of planned obsolescence and reinforced a culture of disposable and unquestioning consumption. Dont open the iPad, dont hack the Tivo, and for god sake ignore every electron in your car. to do otherwise may void the warranty.
fast forward to 2022 and the US is scrambling to undo this trainwreck before China and most of the developed world reduce us to a wholly dependent subsidiary of their largest conglomerates. Unfortunately its happening in the most ham-fisted and desperate effort ever imagined. Big Bang theory? nerds are cool now kids, make sure to be a nerd. Code.org? codes cool now kids, go learn code. Raspberry pi's for everyone until there are none left, but remember not to hack or question your proprietary courseware in class now, and enjoy those locked down spyware laptops. Learn!(tm) be curious(tm)
Consumerism has done everything possible to kneecap intellectual curiousity. DMCA? DRM? secure boot? signed firmware, version locks and region locks and nearly every millimeter of most game consoles are a baron wasteland of "dont touch, only consume." hell, even obfuscated script on websites could be seen as actively working to subvert any sort of personal interest in favour of harvesting as much data about the consumer as possible. and if you do have curiousity? expect a youtube-dl style response until the very corporate overlords that depend upon your intellect to survive capitulate and grudgingly shrug off consumerism for the femtosecond it takes to reinstate your project.
It suggest that all people are intellectually curious as children, after which this curiosity is destroyed in the education system.
It provides zero evidence for this sweeping conclusion. Education not being very fun and not very personalized does not prove that intellectual curiosity is wiped out.
Anybody whom has spent any time with children or are old enough to see a child develop into a full grown adult would have noticed the dramatic individual differences in their behavior and abilities, many likely to be genetic. All children are curious to a degree, which quite simply is a biological necessity to understand how this world works. But deep curiosity for curiosity's sake, for no immediate purpose: only found in specific individuals. They just seem to be born with it.
To illustrate how large individual differences can be, meet my family.
Father. Poor upbringing. Life long blue collar worker. Near-zero education. Has read about 50% of all the books in the town's library. Born intellectually curious and remains so against all odds.
Mother. Housewife with some past side jobs. Lowly educated. Zero intellectual curiosity. Watches a soap opera and reads a gossipy mag, and you can't get her interested in anything else. She has low capacity to do so, furthermore is anxious and scared of anything new. She's always been this way.
Brother. Grunt worker like my father but with the intellectual limitations of my mother. A mix of the two. Again, has always been this way.
Me. Intellectually curious like my father, with some soft sides from my mother. Tinkerer from the very start.
Girlfriend. Perhaps most painful. Intelligent and educated. But not intellectually curious. The education system didn't discourage it, she simply never was intellectually curious.
Where a small sample size is usually a shortcoming in providing any evidence, here I'd make the point that the incredible diversity in outcomes of such a small sample size illustrates my point: you're intellectually curious or you're not.
Some simply lack the capacity to be that curious. Some do have the capacity but still don't use it. Some can be convinced to use it, by force or incentive. And for some it's completely effortless and just whom you are.
The idea that we all are (as children) is nonsense. The idea that the education system wipes this out, is nonsense.
But if I were to give the author the benefit of the doubt on this part, it is absolutely destroyed in the libertarian take on free market education. So the idea here is that universities should go bankrupt if they fail to deliver the student a high paying job.
So you put businesses in the driving seat of "intellectual curiosity" and life long learning. Businesses. You can't be serious. There can't be any entity that cares less.
The connections between concepts seem completely random and made-up.