California legalizes digital license plates for all vehicles | Hacker News Reader

California legalizes digital license plates for all vehicles

theregister.com

This seems like a solution in search of a problem. I have never changed the plate on a vehicle. What use is this?

Yeah. Why would anyone seriously need this?

License plate isn't something like, say, iPhone wallpaper that you can change when you get bored. Don't they just stay the same for years and even for the lifetime of the most vehicles anyway?

Any actual practical use cases instead of a gimmick that I'm missing?

>Any actual practical use cases instead of a gimmick that I'm missing?

The only practical thing I can see is "safety". Maybe a way for law enforcement can change the plates to flash red and blue when the car in question is being looked for like in an amber alert or general warrant? Something to that effect?

That's the primary use case I've seen talked about.

That and tax enforcement, imagine instead of the police having to look for a sticker or anything they just see a giant "UNPAID ROAD TAX" on the back of your car, or "EXPIRED REGISTRATION".

Those are already solved issues with the plate readers are already in widespread use. Police just drive around and their car automatically tells them when vehicles around them have issues. Some states have stopped issuing stickers entirely because they’re no longer necessary.

You don't need a fancy e-ink display replacing the plate for that.

Something like a green/red led might do (added to the car, besides the plate), if it flashes red it means unpaid road tax or "stop me", if it is green it means all good.

Don't the police already have vehicles with very fast plate scanners that can do that as well as check if the vehicle is stolen?

Yup. Match it with the database (which is absolutely trivial) that police uses and has entries for stolen vehicles, and hey, you don't need this product at all.

Also in both cases, it would be trivial for any professional thief to swap the plate out with a regular one, or do a quick desoldering to prevent license plate from updating itself.

Couldn't they just have centralised database and OCR? It doesn't even need to be live. Updated daily should be enough.

Anpr seems to work just fine in the uk.

/perhaps the 'A' can now stand for 'analogue'

I suspect criminals would prefer not to have a red/blue flashing plate and would get one that isn't doing this.

Why not? STOLENCAR. It adds friction to theft.

You could use it to display a second factor access code for licence plate readers. Eg

- Car arrives at a gate.

- Gate detects the licence plate and sends an auth request.

- Car receives the request and displays a 2FA code on the plate.

- Gate reads the code and grants access.

There aren't many situations where this would be necessary, and it'd probably be done better with something wireless like plain old radio, but it'd be quite fun.

Doesn’t really seem like an advantage, from a security perspective it’s still something screwed on to the outside of your car.

Homelink is already in many cars and it supports rolling code auth.

I don’t understand the point of that. Just use ANPR on the plate to identify the vehicle. If it really needs to be that secure (a restricted area or what not) then you’re going to need a person to go check the driver’s identity anyway.

This is strictly for the 1% for vanity plates and maybe a few commercial trucking/hauling companies. No one else will find it useful. I suspect if you look around for campaign contributions you will find several to state reps from the company that sells it (or it's mother corp). The LTE is more dystopian tracking nonsense

Ability to show ads for the manufacturer of plates. More money for the state (these cost more on a recurrent basis)

Whenever they would be displaying ads, they would not be serving their intended purpose.

As your second sentence suggests, I have difficulty seeing this as anything more than rent-seeking masquerading as innovation.

Many license plates already have an ad under the main number.

In the US I usually see this as the name of the dealership.

That small strip area or anything similar would be enough to build an ad business if allowed in the future.

That is not the license plate, that is the easily removable license plate frame. Which is technically illegal most of the time since it obscures part of the license plate.

The license plate ads I have seen are for sports businesses or “charities”:

https://dmv.ri.gov/registrations-plates-titles/license-plate...

If the function of the license plate is to easily identify a vehicle, they should all be uniform and easy to read. But, of course, someone, somewhere is usually willing to sell out, so we get sports team advertisements.

You mean a license plate frame? It's not really part of the license plate at all. I took mine off entirely when I moved states.

That said some states (like Pennsylvania) have their tourism department slogan or website on the standard plate (visitPA.com for Pennsylvania). So yeah, you're paying a subsidized rate to carry around an advertisement for your state.

So why would anyone want to get one?

Zero clue how it works where you live (and yes, I saw that this was about California), but in Germany and Austria it's basically at the county level, so every time you move more than like 20km, you get a new plate (some amount of leniency for a few months notwithstanding) - for bigger cities there are even different plates for "in the city" and "the actual region around it".

I had my front plate damaged by a garbage truck when I parked to close to some bins. The DMV gave me new plates (for a fee) because of course they aren't going to have spares with my number sitting around in every DMV office.

That sucks, my state replaces damaged plates for free.

A digital plate would only cost someone (whether the individual or the taxpayer) even more to replace.

Ability to flash an eink middle finger to the guy honking madly behind you?

It must be satire.

Maybe there is some kickback going on here between the company that makes these and the state...

I can sort of see the value of Reviver plates for fleets, but their consumer product seems very expensive for what you get. I can already in Colorado (where they are also legal) renew my registration on my phone. The existing app for many modern cars can tell you where the vehicle is. That leaves the personalization aspect for $20/month. Plus, if you opt for the battery model you now have the added inconvenience of needing to remember to charge your license plate. I just don't get it.

And they are probably horribly insecure, like most Internet of Things things. I wonder if a vehicle owner would have legal problems if a script kiddie hacks their license plate.

Someone came up with an idea to make money and you're getting it if you like it or not.

Welcome to corporate America.

How can you write a long article about new type of license plate and not show a single photo of one... I'm quite disappointed after following this link.

From the linked article

https://blog.eink.com/reviver-creates-smart-license-plate-wi...

Here you go! https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2018/06/01/616043976...

I can see these getting destroyed or vandalized in all sorts of situations. Parked in a spot that enrages someone for some reason? smashed plates. Jerk kids looking to have some destructive fun? smashed plates. Idiot driver looking at phone behind you? smashed plates (and car.)

Also, how do we guarantee these are tamper proof and there's no plate kill switch which enables a driver to blank a plate when running through an automated toll plaza or red light/speed camera which relies on license plates for identification?

And I can imagine these being a boon for municipal revenue when faulty plates fail or are kicked in and traffic cops happily ticket owners for improperly displayed plates.

I see ZERO incentive for these.

> "Californians are known to be early adopters of emerging innovative technologies. We welcome new opportunities to automate and integrate as many parts of our lives as possible, enabling us to streamline mundane tasks and stay connected. Our cars are no exception," said Reviver co-founder and chief strategy officer Neville Boston.

Yawn.

This story really needs the old-school The Register biting treatment.

What’s the advantage to the car owner here? They cost more than stamped or printed plates. Why do I want this since my plate doesn’t really change other than putting a sticker on once a year.

The downsides include ads (pretty insane) and tracking (don’t care).

Outside commercial fleets it's not a great deal. Maybe for a kid's first car to be able to keep tabs on where they go.

Just need to hack them to display a different number when the speed camera flash goes off

Just put a slave flash in your license plate lights. When the flash of the camera goes off, the slave flash on the vehicle fires, overexposing the license plate.

The plate would detect the light from the flash at the same time the light is reflected from the plate back to the camera. It would be too late.

So, have the license plate connected to speed meter - every time you are over speed limit the number changes, regardless of whether or not you are being filmed/photographed. :-D

I know where all my local cameras are. And also, waze is pretty good at knowing where others are, and my speed. "It looks like you're driving too fast, can i help you with that?"

Hit-and-run drivers would find this helpful, as well.

Not really that helpfull: if there's a camera that managed to catch the incident then it will film you before you hit someone, and you can only change the license plate after. It might make police chase harder, but they still have evidence to you use against you in court. Unless you have some AI that can predict accident 10 seconds in advance, but then it could hit the breaks instead of just changing the license plate.

Most hit-and-run incidents do not currently occur within the view of a license plate-resolving camera, or in sight of a police cruiser in a position to initiate a chase. Other than in cases like these, the incident does not have to be anticipated 10 seconds in advance for the obfuscation to increase the chances of getting away with it.

Besides bringing nothing of value compared to existing licence plates, these would be more expensive and insecure. They would probably have a vastly worse carbon footprint, and consume way more energy and resources to make.

Perhaps most importantly to the average car owner, Reviver said Rplate owners can renew their registration online through the Reviver mobile app.

Renewing registration online in California is already incredibly fast and easy.

I'd bet its probably easier than an app is going to make it.

Simply because there was more money to develop it, no whims of an appstore to comply with, and no bored designers looking to differentiate the design.

By which I mean it is total driven by function and very good at that.

I'm honestly surprised this is going through given all the concerns with hacking and such.

There seems to be a lot of opportunity for hackers (script kiddies) to either:

1) Change their license plate number before committing a crime.

2) Troll (endanger) other drivers by changing their text to "STOLEN" as shown in the linked pages.

Does this means if I hack my way into the hardware I can change the number on the fly while I drive ? ....

Why does this even exist? More explicit tracking and more ads.. plus:

> monthly fee of about $7.

Just another tax.

That was my question too. Although, you have people who pay additional money to special interest groups by buying personalized plates anyway.

Perhaps an e-ink license plate frame would make a lot of sense for those seeking to personalize.

On the linked blog.eink.com page, they list the cost as $20/month for 48 months.

eInk screens are notoriously easy to break, while metal plates are mostly for the life of the vehicle. Metal plates also need no charging or batteries change.

Why would anyone want this?

Not only is it a solution in search of a problem, but if you’ll forgive me, I think I speak for many when I say that I can’t wait to hack it!!

I would make the claim these e-Ink plates are not suitable for road use as they make the readability much worse.

‘much worse’ good choice of words because California License Plates were never easily readable from the beginning.

Personally, I think we should use European-style wide format plates to be honest.

I would like one of these that blinks out whenever I pass near a traffic camera.

Why can't they get rid of registration stickers?

In the state I'm in, they discontinued them several years ago. Of course, they equipped (state) police with license plate scanners, so they can check the cloud for how up to date your registration is.

It is expensive and, in my opinion, insecure.

Since this makes about as much sense as designer identification cards, instead of debating practical issues as reasons why this would pass I would start cynically by checking for financial connections between Reviver and California government.

Seeing as Reviver started in 2009 and were allowed testing from 2013 that didn't start until 2017, I'd check the connections of pols or administrators who left in 2012 or 2014, too. That four-year gap makes me think that they got state permission before they had anything resembling a product, so it might have needed to be done before someone in particular left their influential job.

edit:

The press release can't stop mentioning politicians, and a list of groups who would definitely endorse anything for a check pretending that this is important innovation.

https://reviver.com/press-release/reviver-announces-passage-...

> Neville Boston, Reviver Co-Founder and Chief Strategy Officer [said] “We’d like to thank Assemblymember Lori. D. Wilson for spearheading this important bill, as well as our previous authors and many diverse partners for their help in reaching this exciting milestone. We are especially grateful to the California Black Chamber of Commerce, California New Car Dealers Association, Silicon Valley Leadership Group, and the California Police Chiefs Association. Without their unwavering support, this wouldn’t be possible.”

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> “I am honored and humbled to see AB 984 signed into law,” said Assemblymember Lori D. Wilson (D-Suisun City). “As a member of the California Legislative Technology and Innovation Caucus, I am thrilled to build upon the past successes of the Legislature that first implemented this program. AB 984 strikes a necessary balance between innovation and privacy while digitizing the only thing on our cars today that remain antiquated, license plates.”

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> “In 2013, I authored SB 806, a bill that authorized an alternative device pilot program with the CA DMV and sparked the evolution of the digital license plate, ” said Senator Ben Hueso. “AB 984 enroots a successful pilot program and exemplifies California’s leadership in technological innovation, while maintaining the integrity of thoughtful security, privacy, and convenience.”

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> “California is home to the rapidly growing technology of digital license plates,” said Majority Leader Emeritus Hertzberg. “California has always been a place for innovation and opportunity, and AB 984 shows how we can use technology to improve compliance, offer convenience, and develop industry standards.”

edit:

More on Ben Hueso - this seems like literally the first thing he did when he got into office, which was 2013. The other thing he's famous for is: "In March 2017 Hueso was the lead author of the controversial California Senate Bill 649 which would have removed a city's ability to control where the 5G cell service antennas are placed, transferring that power to the state." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Hueso

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