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Comment by orwin | Hacker News Reader

I really like posts like this, it challenged my biases and changed my opinion. Just wanted to state here that this wasn't a simple upvote.

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I saw a lot of east asia hate almost everywhere on the internet and surprisingly also on HN about asia dumping wastes into the ocean and polluting the globe in general when in fact we were the ones importing wastes and developing countries needed to use coal/oil for further advancing as a nation. The west/developed countries blames eastern/developing countries for it when in fact they were also responsible for a shitton amount of emissions when they started industrialising their countries and still continue to export wastes/export manufacturing stuff which generates waste.

As a consumer and a tourist, I was appalled at the amount of plastic being used everywhere (Thailand and Vietnam). Pineapple by the slice from a kiosk? Wrapped in plastic. Bubble tea? Plastic container and straw, along with a little plastic bag. Groceries? Plastic galore.

I do know though, that on a per-capital level, the Western world still produces more waste, but there was no thought of hey maybe this much plastic is bad?

> Pineapple by the slice from a kiosk? Wrapped in plastic. Bubble tea? Plastic container and straw, along with a little plastic bag. Groceries? Plastic galore.

Sounds like the USA too. Things have only started to change in the last 2 years or so, as some municipalities start banning plastic bags and foam food containers, and companies like Starbucks are starting to put on a show of biodegradability.

Meanwhile now we have paper straws coated in PFAS. We definitely don't need the plastic bags, but I'd rather have the plastic straws!

Free plastic grocery bags have been banned for years in the EU and it couldn't be better. It makes me all the more so annoyed at food packaging (since it's the only thing you see stuck in roadside bushes nowadays).

Yes that's what I mean, per capita the Western world leads in waste and plastic usage. Can't help but think that if Asia and Africa were at a similar income level, they would be as high or higher on the waste scale, i.e. the poorer populations in Asia pull down the average vs the city-dwelling middle classes.

I thought the bag banning was the wrong thing myself. I always reused my grocery bags as trash bags, now I have to buy trash bags...which seem like they use more plastic. But maybe most people don't use them that way.

I did this too, but I only needed a trash bag like once a week, and inevitably ended up with more than that, before I got diligent about reusable bags. Even if everyone did it, there's no way every bag would be accounted for.

Is it perhaps a workaround for poor sanitation? All that plastic isn’t free so I’d assume there is a reason they do it.

The food doesn't become sanitary by coming in contact with plastic. I do believe it is a proxy for sanitary conditions though and that explains at least some of the usage.

I suspect that much of the sentiment comes from the fact that when Western countries did it, they didn't know better.

Sure they did.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pea_soup_fog

> From as early as the 1200s, air pollution became increasingly prevalent, and a predominant perception in the 13th century was that sea-coal smoke would affect one's health. From the mid-1600s, in British cities, especially London, the incidence of ill-health was attributed to coal smoke from both domestic and industrial chimneys combining with the mists and fogs of the Thames Valley. Luke Howard, a pioneer in urban climate studies, published The Climate of London in 1818–1820, in which he uses the term "city fog" and describes the heat island effect which concentrated the accumulation of smog over the city.

> King Edward I of England banned the burning of sea-coal by proclamation in London in 1272, after its smoke became a problem.

They knew it was a problem. The economic benefits were simply too much to pass up. Sound familiar?

These are local problems. Those lucky enough to relocate, can.

The issue is causing problems for everyone. We don't even have a relocation plan for the ultra-rich. Amazing that we all still have something in common.

Raising issues of common interest is not hate. It’s a debate among equals. Projecting hate and shifting blame is hateful in itself. Not taking responsibility for local corrupt politicians that dont mind turning a blind eye to equally corrupt business from the west and ignoring environmental issues is appalling.

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