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Comment by mattgreenrocks | Hacker News Reader

Probably my age showing, but the value proposition of PC gaming seems to have fallen steeply in the past few years compared to consoles. The prospect of playing Serious Multiplayer Games has almost fallen off my radar completely, and that was one of the primary draws for me in the past. Nowadays, I don't want to fiddle with Windows (which insists on forcing updates when I do power my PC up to play with friends), mess with hardware, or anything like that.

I have a big Steam library that I don't want to give up, but I could see being all in on future versions of Steam Deck.

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> Probably my age showing, but the value proposition of PC gaming seems to have fallen steeply in the past few years compared to consoles.

Consoles have been the better value for a long time.

That said, it's a mistake to look at $1600 flagship cards and AAA titles and think that's the only way to game on a PC. Even entry-level cards in the $200-300 range can play modern games at 1080p or even 1440p as long as you're not trying to max out the settings (max PC settings aren't available on consoles anyway)

The real upshot to PC gaming, IMO, is that there are hundreds of highly-rated PC titles over released over the past decade that you can access with a few clicks.

> Nowadays, I don't want to fiddle with Windows (which insists on forcing updates when I do power my PC up to play with friends),

Ironically, this was my experience with consoles. Since I play infrequently, I'd often be stuck on forced console software updates whenever I turned it on. AAA console games also need to be updated frequently, some times with 10s of gigabytes to download before I can play. Updates aren't exclusive to PCs any more.

For me, the biggest reason to continue PC gaming (aside from the sheer breadth of titles and generally better visuals) is that, sure, the GPU alone cost me $700 and the whole thing cost as much as 3 consoles...

...but I already needed a computer. My desktop PC is my workhorse and still performs better than any laptop at a similar price point. I just look at that $700 GPU as a $500 upgrade to a more basic option - similar to a PC without a nice GPU plus a dedicated game box.

Doesn't hurt that I can also make use of it in photo/video/animation/etc applications as well as in games.

Still, I imagine that if you don't do anything that can't be done on an $800-900 laptop, it might just be simpler to buy that and an Xbox.

A $200 GPU is a nice GPU!

A $700 GPU needs expensive fussy cooling too, and it's hard to get peak performance from it, and it really doesn't add much value to the gameplay.

What $200 GPU available today is nice?

I searched Amazon right now and I see an RX 6600 for $230.

That GPU is plenty fast for most gaming, unless you're trying to push 4K or very high framerates at 1440p.

Nobody needs a $700 GPU to play video games. Look at the averaged charts: https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/best-gpus,4380.html An RX 6600 still puts out over 100fps at 1080p medium settings on their 8-game average.

>Still, I imagine that if you don't do anything that can't be done on an $800-900 laptop, it might just be simpler to buy that and an Xbox.

I always found it funny that PC gamers seem to think console gamers don't own a computer. We do, we've simply found that for the price of building a gaming PC, one can buy a decent laptop AND a console, and run them both without needing further upgrades for a decade. This has a huge bang for buck. I should know, I've done this twice with the x360 and PS4, paired with a mid range dell laptop. Both are flawless for their respective niche.

I'm probably building a PC next year, but even I acknowledge that I'm going pretty far out into diminishing returns of enjoyment curve to do so.

I think it depends when in the cycle you buy. Yes if you buy at the same time the new console generation comes out, the console is probably going to be cheaper (if it's even available) due to economies of scale, and the fact that they may loss-lead since they make margins on game licensing.

But console generations are long, and after a couple years, even low end PC components will catch up and exceed console performance.

The PC component industry honestly does a great job of selling people things they largely don't need. Games mostly have to work on console, so it doesn't generally make a huge difference to have a GPU for instance which is 5-10x as powerful as the consoles, since the games are optimized for the consoles anyway.

Yes you can go for high resolution or high frame-rates, but how much would you really miss it if you didn't have it?

Very much in the same boat. I like the Steam Deck for the fact that it provides suspend/resume functionality to my PC games, which is useful with my limited time now that I'm older and have a kid.

In the 2000s and early 10s, I would tell friends that $1000 is all you need to spend for a complete tower of hardware - at least, a sweet spot of performance and value. $250 was /pricey/ for a GPU in 2005.

But to be fair, like cars from the 80s to now, they do a lot more these days. I never installed a Physx processor for Crysis but now that's on the GPU.

Tbf, $1000 in 2005 money is hair over $1500 in 2022 money. That $250 GPU would be ~$380 going strictly off inflation.

Eh... I build a new machine about every 4 years. $1000 is still a-ok as a price point.

$1000 on a new machine will get you running basically any new release at 1080p 60fps with only a little tweaking in the settings. I usually do 4k @ 60fps with medium/high graphics on my now nearly 4 year old rig, and it's FINE.

Don't buy these stupidly overpriced cards unless you have a really compelling use case (as in - you're using these commercially) or you're overflowing with cash.

Right now a good higher end machine clocks out at 1500 which is very comparable if you consider inflation.

And that will run games at 4K.

Simply, change to Linux. or at least, try a multi boot setup. I can play nearly everything that its on Steam on Linux, and avoid touching that spyware that has become Windows.

The biggest siren's call of PC gaming over consoles, to me, is modding. I love to tweak games and add mods and features.

Coming of age during the golden age of GoldSrc modding may have something to do with this. From Minecraft mods to Rimworld, or Elder Scrolls, Factorio, Fallout. Even tweaking rules.ini in older Command & Conquer games. I love modding and don't want to give it up by going to the walled garden of a console.

FWIW, they have mods on xbox and playstation now. Not all PC mods can run on console, but many can. I've really enjoyed fallout 4 with a few choice gameplay and graphics mods.

It hasn't, because you can still play 99.9% of games on a 1070, a 5-6 year old card that you can get used for $200 now.

Just because NVidia went bonkers with their flagship pricing during COVID isn't a reason to throw out the best gaming platform out with the bathwater.

> I could see being all in on future versions of Steam Deck.

Steam Deck is just a computer. You're still gaming on a PC.

My 1080 is a freakin trooper, still holding strong for 1440p@60 and only recently have I had to start turning down details from max

I've been using a measly 1060 3GB for years, even Cyberpunk 2077 is totally playable.

But I mean if you only care about games which are available on console, if you prefer a gamepad, sure buy a console.

> Steam Deck is just a computer. You're still gaming on a PC.

Just like a console is a computer, just with a different OS and form factor.

Yes, that was my point. Although with powerful hardware it's more convenient to emulate consoles, rather than vice versa.

But basically at this point, any platform's hardware should be able to play any game in existence.

Steam deck is fantastic, and that's probably selling it short. I'm not quite all in on it yet, but I use it extensively. Especially with a USB-C dock on my TV. It's like the Switch, only better, because I have access to PC-only games.

Well here is my recent experience: my daughter's cheap Lenovo laptop broke, after three years of college. It served her well except for one thing: this new game "Stray" (on steam) requires something better than Intel integrated graphics to work.

Anyway, so new laptop is HP "Victus" for $1100. It includes Nvidia RTX 3050 Ti, so now she can play Stray. It seems like a good deal: 512 GB SSD, Core i7, 16 GB RAM.

The laptop is all fan :-) She discovered that it quickly overheats if you put it on the bed (blocks the vents on the bottom). Also the battery drains real-fast when using the GPU. Also the power brick is larger.

The Steam Deck on the other hand is an absolute dream to use, $400 and I was off to the races with a handheld that’s so powerful it can emulate the Nintendo Switch.

It also plays Stray perfectly fine btw.

Try Linux with steam. Most of your library will probably still work and you can update at your own pace. If it works on the Steam Deck, it will work on Linux.

Steam will still self update which is annoying but usually fairly quick. But otherwise, keeping linux up to date is pretty easy and something you can control. With Manjaro, I run a "yay" once a week or so and it takes 10 minutes or so maximum and everything is up to date.

I've kept a PC for years now that I only use for gaming and its not too much of a hassle. There's still a lot of games that are PC only, and with a lot of major console games eventually getting a PC release I think the value is still there. I do with there was some sort of "gaming only" option for Windows to keep it from being annoying.

Not to suck you into a ten year old MMO, but Guild Wars 2 just launched on the Steam Deck, if that was an itch you wanted to scratch =]

>Nowadays, I don't want to fiddle with Windows (which insists on forcing updates when I do power my PC up to play with friends)

Unfortunately consoles have become normal PCs in this regard - if you wanna play online you'll be forced to update the console OS and applyvgame patches.

You should try proton! Linux gaming has never been better, and it's a relaxing experience compared to Windows.

The PS5 is indeed good value; until you buy 8.

The 4090 clocks in at an incredible 80tflops. Compared to the 10tflops of the PS5's GPU. Now compare that to a Nintendo Switch at about 1tflop if we are being generous.

Still I wish it wasn't so large or hot.

> The 4090 clocks in at an incredible 80tflops. [...] Now compare that to a Nintendo Switch at about 1tflop if we are being generous.

Is it 80x as fun to play games on the 4090 than the switch? Or 5.5x as fun, if we go by price?

Mocking your friends' resolution and frame rate is extremely fun.

It's pay-to-win though.

>Mocking your friends' resolution and frame rate is extremely fun.

I know you're probably joking, but I see this sentiment spoken seriously over on PCMR, and it's so cringe. Graphics quality between PC and console are so close now that the only people who care spend all their time pixel peeping at 4x zoom.

Der8auer's review[1] highlights that the power/performance curve on the stock 4090 is awfully strange, and the card could have come out with a 280W or 330W power target, and a much more modestly sized cooler. It didn't have to be the monster that it is, and I wonder if 3rd parties will make more reasonably sized and powered cards.

[1]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60yFji_GKak

Once upon a time, the visual difference between PC and console used to be shocking. Now? Even reviewers have to freeze frame and zoom in 400% and pixel peep to show a difference. I honestly think graphics have been 'good enough' to not be distracting since the x360/ps3 days. I still haven't seen a demo of RT that makes me go 'wow, those reflections are totally worth tanking my fps'

Steam on Linux work great too, if you don't want to give up your PC. All of the games in my library (that I've still got interest in) work well, if not flawlessly.

With my steam library, about 1/5 works "Great with Steam", and 3/5 shows up with the "Verified and Playable" filter, which includes everything labelled "Great With Steam".

keep in mind this is high-end gaming with cutting edge features. you can get a used 2080 for 200-300 which is amazing for 1080p and 1440p (without raytracing)

and there's still a backlog of older games which you can max out for not a lot.

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