GM created a new energy business to sell batteries and solar panels
theverge.com
theverge.com
A misconception here is that we're directly competing with Tesla on all business fronts. That's not entirely true. GM wants to become an administrator of a hardware ecosystem which can include a GM EV or an EV made by somebody else. Most of GM Energy's home hardware will be compatible with 3rd parties.
Also: I recently learned that Ford, GM, and the rest of the industry all use the same plug for their EVs. The only odd one out is.. Tesla. Annoying that the industry pioneer would also be the one who bucks its standards.
Edit: spelling
You didn't know?
They use CCS Type-2 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_2_connector but Tesla's connector is 10x better. Looks at this comparison: https://teslatap.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/connector_co...
Tesla Superchargers are now equipped with CCS connectors and Tesla offers an adapter of course: https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/CCS/CCS_Combo_2_Ad...
It's smaller? What makes it so much better that you would be happy having to carry an adapter around with you? Is this Apple Stockholm Syndrome?
No. I'm French (Tesla has a different connector for their European superchargers). I have been only using Android devices since about 2009 and I've only had USB charging plugs at my place for 12+ years. So…
There's reason to suspect that Tesla's EV systems from top to bottom are referencing a much larger bulk of design material than all other competitors (as they kind of created the modern market while all other large players mostly watched).
So, a standard selected by industry players who were all betting heavily against the design gambles Tesla took everyday ending in 'Y' might not be the rocksolid, consumer friendly standard it looks like at the first shake.
All car companies are bad, dirty, greedy, bastards.
Oh so you have a good deal to learn. You should start with
- Who Killed the Electric Car? (2006 film)
- Revenge of the Electric Car (2011 follow up)
Let me tell you that when Tesla entered the market as a serious player, the rest of the industry did not intend to let Tesla have their say nor to collaborate with them. Tesla had to make their own (better) design and find their way through. They could not wait for standardization when the rest of the industry was fighting tooth and nails against the transition to EV.
Supercharger came before CCS. It's always easy to create a proprietary standard; mostly because you don't have to debug incompatibilities between different interpretations of a standard. (Or deal with different company's opinions about what's important.)
Tesla has always been a member of the CCS consortium. As far as why they haven't adopted CCS in the US, I haven't seen an official answer; but we can look at the slow rollout of Tesla + CCS in the EU: It takes longer to debug equipment built to open standards than equipment built to a proprietary standard.
One thing to note is that CCS supports faster charging rates than Supercharger. It supports higher voltages and higher current. This is much more important than a thinner handle.
People used to say the same thing about Betamax.
Betamax's smaller size ultimately was why it failed in the marketplace; VHS would always have a longer recording time because the cassette was physically larger and could hold more tape.
CCS's pins appear larger, which means that they will always be able to handle more current, and thus a CCS connector will ultimately be able to charge faster than Supercharger.
(And I say this owning a Tesla, and ordering a 2nd one last night. There's many more Superchargers where I travel than CCS chargers)
The Tesla plug and cable weigh significantly less than the standard ones. Enough so that elderly people will have a hard time using standard vs Tesla plugs.
On the technical side, the standard involves a bunch of unnecessary complexity like power-line communication ICs and TCP/IP (note, that data does NOT go over the high power conductors in the cable).
>> CCS's pins appear larger, which means that they will always be able to handle more current, and thus a CCS connector will ultimately be able to charge faster than Supercharger.
CSS is rated to 200A, and I believe Tesla is too. To get higher power Tesla is going to higher voltage battery with the same charging current - same conductors. This seems to be a trend as well.
CSS really is crappy, but it looks like that's what we're stuck with for now.
The current CCS standard is 500 amps and up to 1000 volts, so in principle up to 500 kW.
Typically the fastest CCS charger you'll see these days is 350 kW.
ABB's newer chargers are up to 360 kW: https://insideevs.com/news/583774/abb-installed-first-terra-...
Alpitronic's new charger is up to 400 kW: https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:6931968...
Zerova's future chargers will be 480 kW: https://newatlas.com/automotive/zerova-prototype-10-minute-e...
You need an 800+ volt EV and a battery chemistry capable of taking the faster charge rate to take full advantage of the maximum kilowatts offered by these chargers. A 400 volt EV will charge at up to around 200 kW on a CCS charger (500 amps times 400 volts). The area under the charge curve tends to matter more than the peak charge rate.
Yes, with liquid cooled cables, which are even heavier.
The plug is pretty negligible. For the cables, that's entirely up to the installer whether they want to use active cooling to make things lighter.
> CSS is rated to 200A, and I believe Tesla is too.
They both have versions that go to 500 amps.
> To get higher power Tesla is going to higher voltage battery with the same charging current - same conductors. This seems to be a trend as well.
Many other cars have beat Tesla on that front, doubling their voltages to 800-ish, which is close to the max of CCS.
Never noticed an elderly person struggling with one, and if someone is in such an advanced state of decline that they can't lift a pump nozzle they probably shouldn't be behind the wheel either.
You haven't tried some of the level 2 CSS charger plugs.
Unlike a gas station I had the misfortune to use in Illinois.
That's almost inevitable. By definition, the industry pioneer's product comes out before the standard unless the industry standardizes on the pioneer's solution.
Which is also somewhat unlikely since by that time there's a chance to improve on the design, or if the design is truly better the owner wants big licensing fees.
Solar and batteries I get, but that's actually quite independent of electric cars.
A lot of people will be just peachy with the 1500W of Level 1!
Understanding that, yes most people would be in trouble if they got into their Tesla on Monday morning and it had.... 50 miles of range.
And you don't need to keep your gas tank at full because you can fill it up anywhere and everywhere at anytime in 5 minutes.
If you leave your bubble a little you'll learn a lot. And Im only 50 miles east of your bubble.
I'm not in that much of a bubble. I'm currently working at a company that makes 60-120kW DC fast chargers. I've talked to many people who actually own EVs. I get that the "home backup" use case is a bonus, but it's not a key selling point and it costs more. Also, the utilities want to use your car for "grid support" by making it bi-directional which is different than using your car as a backup when the power goes out. For backup you need the ability to disconnect the house from the grid while powering it from the car, and that's additional cost that people will balk at.
Technology Connections (of dishwasher fame) goes over why you probably need much less:
No, you don't. You use the L1 charger that comes by default with the car. Later, if you decide you want a faster charger, you put in a NEMA 14-50 and keep using the grid. When you get sick of the power bill, you upgrade to solar panels. When the solar panels don't work in a winter outage, you upgrade to batteries. You don't have to do _any_ of this stuff to successfully own an EV.
* Is Tesla so far ahead of competition that they are all trying to copy their playbook a decade after?
* In a supply constrained environment, can GM pull this off being a late mover?
* GM may have current administration advantage for at least 2 more years over Tesla & foreign companies.
* Are there any late mover advantages GM has here?
* GM is without question a much cheaper investment than TSLA when looking at P/E ratio.
I would guess not on the issue of solar panels as that's too distant. Maybe an argument could be made for the batteries? I don't know the bill in sufficient detail.
I'm not sure Tesla is "far ahead" of the competition, so much as they announce stuff earlier and attract more hype and fanfare. (Compare Cybertruck to the Silverado EV, for example -- Tesla was years earlier in announcement and parties, but only a few months off from each other in likely actual ship date. Similarly, Tesla has been announcing/mentioning the 'Model 3' as their 'affordable family car' as far back as like 2008, but the Bolt EV actually shipped in late 2016, and the comparable Tesla Model 3 didn't ship until mid 2017).
In terms of "why enter the energy business", it's an easy "nearly freebie" line of business if your building EV's already. (Like how Starbucks slowly added food to their menu, as McDonalds slowly added fancy coffees). Nissan, for example, launched the Leaf EV in 2010, and has been dabbling in home energy since at least 2015 or so.
> Are there any late mover advantages GM has here?
GM has a fleet of support infrastructure in place, as well as trustworthy guarantees on replacement parts and service. Tesla historically has done the opposite, preferring a more Apple-like proprietary parts and vertically-integrated labour network.
That difference may not matter much on consumer electronics, but when your buying 10+yr long vehicles or bolting things to your house with 20+ yr lifespan expectations, it may factor in a lot more.
"Sales data indicates that GM is nowhere near its ambitious production goal of making tens of thousands of Hummer EVs. The company sold 371 units of the Hummer EV Pickup in the U.S. in the first half of 2022. On June 30, 2022, The Wall Street Journal reported that GM was making just about 12 units a day. A GM spokesman said that the deliveries could grow to thousands later in 2022."
And how about that Bolt recall which cost GM an estimated $1 B.
BEVs sold by GM through 2022 Q3...
36 Lyriqs 782 Hummers 22,012 Bolts
For comparison Tesla sold around 32,000 Model S in 2014.
Does GM have any competency in this area?
Single family housing is becoming a smaller segment of the market as time goes on; those who rent apartments or own condominiums have little say in how their electricity is delivered as well.
And I think one of the lesser discussed benefits of solar is it decentralizes the power grid so a hypothetical attack on infrastructure would be much harder to pull off.
Heck even a small wind turbine could probably be integrated into most homes with no major problems, but that’s just my opinion.
Energy presents a new market to sell goods and services into, they don't want 3rd parties to control the ecosystem after the vehicle sale. There's a battle for home energy ecosystem control playing out today. See Enphase's full product offering for an example.